At least 1 dead and 5 wounded in shooting at California church

There are very few gun owners in Mexico, but their murder rate is 3x higher than ours. That proves your claim to be incorrect.

 

Gun owners in Canada have lost a lot of their abilities to own guns. Maybe they should have argued against gun control harder?

 

As gun ownership increased in the US, homicides went down. So, you're wrong again.

 

Gun control = anti-gun.

 

Us homicide rate is at its highest rate since 1998

 

After falling since 1997. Between 1997 and 2019, gun ownership went up, not down. Even after the unconstitutional ban on semi-automatic rifles sunsetted, the murder continued to decrease. Gun ownership isn't the problem.

What happened between 2019 and the present: police departments have been defunded and have stood down; either voluntarily, or by orders from the city governments. Violent criminals are allowed to run lose because of "equity", or something. That's the problem, not law abiding gun owners.

 

In 2020 alone, more than 45,000 Americans died at the end of a barrel of a gun, whether by homicide or suicide, more than any other year on record. That figure represented a 25% increase from five years prior, and a 43% increase from 2010.
(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081)

You try deflect from that fact by trying to engage in an argument that claims gun ownership does not correlate toincreased homicide rates because you looked at a limited time period and ignored the period before and after it.Again you make unsubstantiated comments with no source and misunderstand how risk including gun ownership as one of many factors is extrapolated by statisticians in regards to gun related crimes.

Next I have never argued gun ownership alone is a problem. . I have argued homicide rates with guns go up as gun ownership does but that is only one aspect of the issue of gun control and you and those who do not want gun control distort the issue as if it only has to do with you being able to own a gun.

No it also has to do with how guns get in the hands of those who then use them to kill.

The issue you will not discuss is what role does any government have in assuring responsible gun ownership no different than it has a role to prevent drunk drivers from getting on the road.

I have argued lack of regulations enables an increase in circulation of weapons which then raises their being accessed to be used to kill others.

Gun ownership is only one factor. Abundance of weapons that then become accessible to be used as murder weapons is the issue and you won't discuss it because you think it will stop you from owning a gun.

 

The claim that gun ownership has decreased in the US since 2019 is false.

"More recent data also suggests that gun ownership grew significantly over the last several years. One study, published by the Annals of Internal Medicine in February, found that 7.5 million US adults - just under 3% of the population - became first new gun owners between January 2019 and April 2021.

This, in turn, exposed 11 million people to firearms in their homes, including 5 million children. About half of new gun owners in that time period were women, while 40% were either black or Hispanic.

A separate study, published by the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2021, linked a rise in gun ownership during the pandemic to higher rates of gun injuries among - and inflicted by - children."

source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

The FBI's 2020 Uniform Crime Report,stated that about 77% of reported murders in 2020 were committed with a gun, up from 74% in 2019. The agency reported that the number of homicides increased by nearly 30% from 2019, the largest single-year jump the agency has recorded.

 

"Nearly eight-in-ten (79%) U.S. murders in 2020 – 19,384 out of 24,576 – involved a firearm. That marked the highest percentage since at least 1968, the earliest year for which the CDC has online records."1

1- https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

The above source goes on to state that:

a-the 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior;

b-gun murders, in particular, have climbed sharply in recent year-19,384 gun murders took place in 2020 were the most since at least 1968, exceeding the previous peak of 18,253 recorded by the CDC in 1993; the 2020 total represented a 34% increase from the year before, a 49% increase over five years and a 75% increase over 10 years;

c-on a per capita basis, there were 13.6 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 2020 – the highest rate since the mid-1990s, but still well below the peak of 16.3 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 1974.

 

Suicides don't count. My body, my choice. Right?

The homicide numbers went up because of covid and the defund the police movement.

If murders increased because of an increase in gun ownership, then murders should have been increasing all along, not decreasing.

When gun sales went through the roof during Obama's first term, murders didn't increase.

Violent crime is still at an historic low and only increased in large cities where gun ownership is low, but not in small towns where gun ownership is higher.

https://usafacts.org/articles/homicides-increased-by-25-but-overall-crime-rate-fell-in-2020/

 

Seems appropriate.

 

It really depends on how your train your gun. If you raise them with love and teach them to respect others, obey the law, finish high school, get a job, get married, and so forth, they usually wind up as good members of society. So we can usually chalk these tragedies up as a failure of the gun owner. It was completely preventable. But that's freedom.

 

W Bill you stated:

"Suicides don't count. My body, my choice. Right?"

Not sure what that means. Suicide by a gun is death by a gun.

You stated:

"The homicide numbers went up because of covid and the defund the police movement."

In regards to the above comment you did not reference or substantiate:

"In fact in a new study, we found that the overall U.S. gun violence rate rose by 30% during the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic compared to the year before. In 28 states, the rates were substantially higher between March 1, 2020, and March 31, 2021, compared to the pre-pandemic period from Feb. 1, 2019, through Feb. 29, 2020. There were 51,063 incidents of gun violence events resulting in injury or death in the United States in the first 13 months of the pandemic compared to 38,919 incidents in the same time span pre-pandemic.

Early in the pandemic, gun sales in the United States surged, with more than 20% of these purchases by first-time buyers. And access to firearms is a well-established risk factor for gun-related suicide and homicide. This sharp increase in firearm purchases raises serious concerns, since the combination of increased stress, social disruption and isolation during the pandemic created a perfect storm of conditions that could contribute to increased gun violence."1

1-https://theconversation.com/gun-violence-soared-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-a-new-study-finds-but-the-reasons-why-are-complex-170250

Why do you selectively ignore the surge of gun sales (ownership) before the surge in gun violence including homicide during Covid 19?

"There were more than 19,400 homicides involving a gun and accidental fatal shootings -- a 25% increase from 2019, according to data from the Gun Violence Archive. Gun suicides reached 24,000 last year, matching the year prior......

It also was a time when an estimated 23 million guns were purchased -- a 65% increase from 2019, according to Small Arms Analytics, a consulting firm that tracks gun sales."

Now if you want to argue there is no correlation between a 65% increase in gun sales and the 25% increase in homicides be my guest. People also still deny smoking causes cancer. Light one up.

 

Hi, Injeun.

Thank you for your injeunious response.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . 'n un-shot.

 

I'd bet you probably half of those who got shot deserved to get shot. I'm all for reducing death, but only at the expense of certain people.

 

What do you mean there's nothing? You can't buy from or sell to someone who lives in another state than you.

 

So does that mean "bad guys"?

 

Studies on the correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates are public domain such as:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504850701675508?journalCode=rael20

The above study examined the link between gun ownership rates and homicide rates with the results showing that gun ownership rates had a statistically significant and positive effect on the homicide rates.

Another example is a study in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, published by Elsevier, that showed a specific link between firearm ownership and the risk of domestic homicides, i.e., for each 10 percent increase in household gun ownership rates, there was a13 percent increased incidence of domestic firearm homicide. (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190722085828.htm)

The US has less than 5% of the world's population, but 40% of the world's civilian-owned guns( 2018 report by the Switzerland-based Small Arms Survey which also stated there were over 393 million firearms in civilian possession in 2017 -- or 120 per 100 persons, the highest rate globally.)

Firearm death rate in the US in 2016 was nearly four times that of Switzerland, five times that of Canada, over 10 times that of Australia and 35 times that of the United Kingdom, according to a 2018 study published in the Journal of the American Medicine Association.

Americans are notably more likely to be killed in a gun homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting than in other high-income countries, a 2015 study in the American Journal of Medicine found. Rates of nonlethal crimes and overall suicides are similar among the countries, but the U.S. does have a higher homicide rate overall, "fueled by the firearm homicide rate," according to the study.
(https://abcnews.go.com/US/countries-show-us-americas-gun-violence-epidemic/story?id=80495637)

https://abcnews.go.com/US/countries-show-us-americas-gun-violence-epidemic/story?id=80495637

That all said the issue is not whether gun owners kill. The majority do not. The question is, how do the same lack of regulations or restrictions that allow "good people" to purchase weapons, increase them the likelihood of them getting into the hands of someone who then uses them to kill someone. That has always been the issue.

Is it a coincidence the state in the US with the most lax gun laws has the highest homicide rate?

I am now discussing risk management and injury prevention basic concepts associated with regulation of any risk to life.

So I advance the position of the AAFP(American Academy of Family Physicians):

"Gun violence should be considered a public health issue, not a political one—an epidemic that needs to be addressed with research and evidence-based strategies that can reduce morbidity and mortality. Gun violence affects people of all ages and races. Family physicians care for victims of gun violence and their families every day. These physicians, who witness the substantial impact firearm-related violence has on the health of their patients, families, and communities, have the power to help improve the safety and wellbeing of those groups."

They go on to state:

"Gun violence is a public health epidemic and should be treated accordingly. While mass shootings are horrific and capture the attention of the media, they are only part of the gun-violence picture—more than half of all suicides are firearm-related,10 and firearms are used in more than 50% of female homicides.3,11

Similarly to females, firearm-related deaths are a particular threat to children in the U.S. They are the third-leading cause of death in children overall,1 and the U.S. accounts for more than 90% of all firearm deaths among children in developed, high-income nations.12"

for all the above see: https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/gun-violence.html

Getting into a debate as to whether good gun owners kill people is not the issue,

 

"shall not be infringed" isn't hard to understand.

Tell a woman who is statistically smaller and more susceptible to violence from men that she can't protect herself with her weapon.

 

In US states where they have regulated firearm storage there is the following study that shows a subsequent 11% decrease in the firearms-related death rate-https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1921965117.

So instead of turning every debate about gun regulation into an incorrect depiction of it trying to take guns away from good people, can we talk about what gun regulation actually can do if its done properly and it has to do not just with restricting purchases of specific weapons which is one category but other categories such as gun storage, gun training, screening of potential owners with criminal and mental health issues.

 

There is already a screening portion of the firearms transfer document.
CHL training is voluntary, and covers some training and storage.

None of that matters and will do nothing to stop a lunatic like the one in the church or the one who shot people in the grocery store. People act like you can stop these things, and you can no more prevent that than you could prevent that murderous clot darrell brooks who drove into a crowd of elderly white women (notoriously played down by the media similar to the loads of other black murderers) with is car.

You'll never stop it. Until the criminal fears his victims (and places with gun-free rules will invite this) this will just go on forever.

 

Nothing compared to those who die from overdoses from dope coming across the boarder .o yes by the way 3 times as many people are killed by knives then rifles in the usa. And about the same for people beat to death.with hands and feet .

 

Why are you comparing knives with rifles and not knives with guns? How many overdose from taking "dope"?

 

whats the difference between a gun and a rifle?

 

What's the difference between a machete and a dinner knife?