Thunder Ranch

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by SiNNiK, May 22, 2022.

  1. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to take this class, and while I was watching the video it occurred to me that this is the kind of stuff that Democrats and other Hoplophobes ridicule, yet "without training " is a common complaint among those same groups in regards to carrying firearms in public places.

    Left me wondering what kind of training the left is demanding.

    Ideas?
     
  2. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    They want training classes to be too expensive and too time consuming for the average individual to participate in.

    It's just another way to make gun ownership so difficult that most folks either will not want to bother with it, or will not be able to own a gun.

    Take the "Federal Firearms Licensing Act" recently reintroduced. It would require a license per gun. It would take 10 years to issue the hundreds of millions of licenses that would be applied for and of course, the government would intentionally drag it's feet processing the applications.
     
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  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    That which is too expensive and/or too difficult for the average person to complete.
     
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  4. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    I spent many years in the Army training Soldiers in "force-on-force" tactics. I am amazed that civilians seem to think that the key to victory is just being a good shot. That's only half the deal. Its just as important learning how not to GET SHOT. Standing straight up in a line is a great way to die. Whoever is conducting this training has lots of experience watching TV and none in actual combat.
     
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  5. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    It's my guess you didn't watch the video.

    Amiright?

    "Clint Smith, President and Director of Thunder Ranch®, is a Marine Corps veteran of two infantry and Combined Action Platoon tours in Vietnam. His experience includes seven years as a police officer during which he served as head of the Firearms Training Division as well as being a S.W.A.T. member and precision rifleman."

    https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/quotations-clint-smith
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
  6. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Come to think of it, you may be confused as to the goal of the class.
     
  7. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    This leftist got his training in the army and before the army from family members who had been in the army and from hunting.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2022
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  8. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    So?
     
  9. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Ask him if he ever used MILES (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System). Its a laser based simulation system which allows personnel (and vehicles) to "shoot" at each other with ranges and lethality that replicate the actual weapons. The Army had used it for years with great success at the Combat Training Centers like Ft Irwin, Hohenfels and the JRTC. When we introduced it to the Marines, the realism was initially rejected by the Marines. They said that it showed that their leaders could be killed and it was bad for morale. The Brits, by the way, reacted the same way. The Marines now use MILES at Twenty Nine Palms, but it appears to be because they are commanded to, not because they embrace it.

    MILES came long after Vietnam. Its history traces its roots to Makin Island and WWII, however, where BG S.L.A. Marshall started the whole idea of an After Action Review (where my screen name comes from). I had the opportunity to meet with BG Marshall when I was a young Captain, and discuss the amazing training value of his ideas.

    The essence of an AAR is to not "critique" students, but to ask them questions about what happened in the tactical exercise and let them think about what they did and what happened as a result. There seems to be a natural inclination among trainers to revert to a "critique" where participants are preached to. When the participants are asked to think, rather than get chewed out, they learn. Here's an example: After one exercise, I saw a Soldier sitting with his legs crossed and his helmet off. This is the procedure to indicate he was "killed". When I asked him how he was "killed", he told me that his buddy had been shot next to the tree he was sitting under. All of a sudden, you could see him realize that if his buddy had been shot there, then the enemy had the are in their sights. When he went over, he was shot. LESSON LEARNED: Don't go over to help a wounded buddy until you are sure the enemy can no longer engage targets in that area.

    Well... there's so much more to say. We conducted all sorts of exercises using these tools from Squad to Platoon to Company and Battalion level exercises. It can get pretty complex. But going to the range just to shoot targets that can't shoot back is a pretty useless exercise, unless your goal is simply winning a trophy.
     
  10. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    There are many ways to train in a "force-on-force" environment without the expensive equipment. Although not as realistic, the Army had the principles down before technology caught up.
     
  11. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    As I suspected, you are unclear as to what the training is about.

    He has actual combat experience, and lots of it.

    I used miles equipment in the 80's, is no big deal.
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've asked numerous times and never been provided an objective answer ...so I'll presume we're to be trained that guns are immoral and dangerous, unless we're using them to shoot brown people overseas.

    Corrections welcome.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
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  13. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    I always kinda pictured flash cards with words like "trigger" and "high capacity magazine" on them.

    Something basic and rudimentary.
     
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  14. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    M'kay. Your point?
     
  15. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Well. I have "actual combat experience too" my friend. And MILES was described as the "greatest force multiplier since the LONGBOW was introduced at the Battle of Agincourt". by LTG Julius Becton, who was the Commander of VII Corps in Germany at the time. So when we look at the value of MILES, we can take YOU saying it is "no big deal" or a Lieutenant General saying it is the greatest "force multiplier" since the Long Bow. I'll go with the three star guy.
     
  16. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    What do you think of the class though?
     
  17. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    And that is not what happened at Agincourt.
     
  18. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    The class? What class?
    I'll be sure to mention that to LTG Becton...
     
  19. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    The class that this thread is about.

    You feeling ok?
     
  20. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Multiple times in these forums, far more than a more than a dozen times, when a gun control advocate has suggested the training should be required for gun ownership or carry licensing legislation I have when I issued the challenge to define even what the minimal training requirements should be, I have never received an answer. I suspect it is just a fashionable thing for a leftist to parrot. I am still waiting.
     
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  21. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    In that one way they at least seem wise enough to realize that they don't actually have clue.
     
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  22. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    No they demonstrate their ignorance and veiled dishonesty. But then, the call for a requirement for training continually parroted by the left without specifying what that training should consist of, is mere as sound good (to the left) hurdle to imped gun ownership. They have never made a logically coherent case for making training a requirement for exercising a right. Should training be required for exercising fee speech or voting? What training will prevent a bad guy from using a gun in the commission of a crime? They don’t usually even specify why training should be required.
    I conduct various courses in firearms training. I always recommend new gun owners seek training in gun safety, CQB, applicable law, etc.but that training can be attained on a voluntary basis.
    And like many things, an on-going basis… hell, I have over 60 years of continual experience with a all manor if firearms, CQB, and I am still learning and still train, so you’d think I’d be an advocate for required training, it would be to my financial benefit, but I am still awaiting an explanation of why it should be required with a rational, logical arguement and what that required training should be and how it will prevent crime.
    More people are killed by ladders annually than by rifles. Should they be licensed with a training requirement?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
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  23. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

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    Training is key with firearms as with many other things. But, IMO, the most important factor is 'responsibility' and training reinforces that.

    Looks like an excellent course to take.
     
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  24. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Check it out, our boy Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch was a hot topic at the NRA convention in Houston yesterday.

     
    Last edited: May 28, 2022

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