The Texas shooting shows the futility of arming teachers

"Strict contol" vs an all out ban would certainly not be MORE effective than an out and out ban. You keep acting as if there was aproblem elsehwere and they solved it with gun measures. They never had the problems in the first place. You are misrepresenting that situation. The fact remains that you cannot stop people from getting guns, and you most certainly cannot stop people bent on destruction from doing so.

You keep acting as if the only difference between the United States and elsewhere is gun control measures. That is simply not true. If you really want to look at the homicide rate, the school shooting thing is a distraction. It is a tiny infinitessimal aspect of the homicide rate.

Inner cities drive the homicide rate, and inner city (gang type) killings are almost exclusively with black market guns, so gun control has literally no bearing on this topic. If you want to solve the homicide problem in this country, it is far more about societal issues than it is about the legal gun trade.

 

A society that doesn't take significant steps to prevent innocent children from being machine-gunned in their school classroom is a sick society.

And the first thing conservative elected officials say when this happens is that the guns have nothing to do with it.

To me, and the vast majority of Americans, this is totally toxic rhetoric that has killed enough innocent people.

 

That seems to be what happened at this elementary school.

 

I believe you are correct. Simply locking doors could have saved lives. What a shame.

 

And have you ever seen a gun shoot anything or anybody on it's own? Of course not.
A gun is an inanimate object with no motivation or malice. The person who picks the gun up is the variable, that makes it the tool of their own purpose- good or bad. The same thing is true if you pick up a hammer.

Murder far preceded guns and every kind of man-made weapon until we get back to cave men and rocks, or natural weapons. Murder has always existed.
Thus, the common denominator in ALL murders, regardless of weapon used-
Is a person intent on murder. It is the one thing, that if removed or controlled- solves the problem.

Are we to think that if we have no guns, evil will disappear? If we disarm those willing to obey the law, that those who won't will follow suit? We all know better- but we think we have to do "something". I agree we do- but it damn sure won't work unless we do the RIGHT something. The wrong something will not only fail, it will distract people into ignoring the real problem. That is happening right now, on many issues.

Thus- the real problem with "gun" violence- actually the underlying problem behind ALL violence is the human condition; the percentage of people in our society that can't manage themselves and can't cope with life- and express the resulting emotion through violence. You can see that increasing right now as the family structure, community standards and things that embed values and self-respect into children are being systematically degraded, the level of violence in our society is systematically increasing. An old friend who was a judge for around 20 years once stated it clearly: "The self-regulator is the best regulator. We only need laws because some people will not self-regulate; if they all did- I'd be out of a job." Yet we are not working to increase self-regulation and personal values- we are literally embracing concepts that reject those things; then asking ourselves what's wrong and blaming everything except what's wrong. For some reason- the failures don't deter the people committed to doing the same thing over and over.

Obviously, the challenge of dealing with people's state of mind is far more challenging than dealing with an inanimate object. Nobody can suggest a way to do that without triggering fear in people that their own mindset might come into question. BUT- if we are going to change the level and nature of violence, that is what we must address. Doing so has no downside, except that it has become politically incorrect to call a murderer a murderer, and doing so is likely to get you insulted and labeled as a racist or something. The more we tolerate violence and crime, the more it increases and the more aggressive it becomes.

People with solid values regulate themselves. People without- don't think they should be regulated at all. A weapon can make it easier to kill- but it has nothing to do with the motivation to kill. That is the source, the real problem.

If you have a workable idea to change that, to ix that problem- I'm onboard. Been working on that for about 40 years now.

 

For one the teachers are there at the second it starts. When seconds count armed and trained professional are minutes away -- or in this case many minutes away. A few years back there was an armed teacher who actually stopped an attempted mass school shooting before anyone was hurt....... and who as it turned out got in a lot of trouble for violating the zero tolerance rule of no guns on school property.

 

If an inanimate object is harmless, why can't I own an atomic bomb?

And you defend laws that allow American lunatics to be the best armed in the world.

 

Significant steps are great. Unfortunately, because you can no more keep guns out of the hands of a willing killer than you can keep drugs out of the hands of a willing user, gun control measures do not constitute a "significant step"

I realize that your heart is in the right place, but logic would dictate that your prescription is useless.

 

How's it go.
Guns don't kill people.
People kill people..... Using Guns.


Can anyone dream up a scenario where a madman could kill 19 kids and 2 teachers without a gun.
(Please don't say a bomb )
Still I think its well worth it to have the freedom to own a gun without any checks or balances, definitely well worth it.

 

A society that has reached the point of wanting to arm its teachers and turn schools into bunkers is a sick society.

When you understand that it's too easy for a madman to get two AR-15s to kill children, we'll have a real discussion.

 

Are you saying that the solution to helpless people being murdered is to keep them helpless? That is far from reasonable.

 

A society that has reached the point of wanting to arm its teachers and turn schools into bunkers is a sick society.

When you understand that it's too easy for a madman to get two AR-15s to kill children, we'll have a real discussion.

 

I say that the means you propose to ensure the safety of citizens are wrong.

 

From our Australian experiment rate of fire seems to be the main issue. I think we lowered magazine size as well. Getting a handgun is incredibly difficult. Most importantly, we have a different gun culture that doesn't advocate manhood through a weapon. Finally, we don't have a neurotic fear of government seizing control.

 

Maybe so.

 

People make false statements all the time. Name one law that doesn't benefit killers:

 

Well for starters rifles are meant to shoot long distances, so unless the inside of your house is the size of a football field its not needed.

 

No it wouldn't, it means they kill the teacher first.

 

nope. Have you ever been in the military or law enforcement?

 

But you have no problem waiting 20-45 minutes for the police when something goes wrong, like in the US?

 

Nope, doesn't change the fact that for home defense all you need is a pistol.

 

no, it tells the whole board you have no idea what you’re talking about. Would you like to attend some training and come back, so what I explain will make more sense?

 

Nope. Roughly 400 million guns, 12,000 murders and half the homicides are committed with things other than guns.

 

No we defend the right of others to be able to shoot back. No matter what you do crazies can and will find some way to arm themselves. Remember the two at Columbine originally planned on throwing propane tanks into the heater under the cafeteria during lunch hour potential casualties into the hundreds.

 

Yes, he was stopped when he was shot dead.
Do you think mass shooters will just stop killing before they are finally forced to stop?