Henry Kissinger: Ukraine Should Give Up Territory to Russia to Reach Peace

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lil Mike, May 25, 2022.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The 98 year old Mr Realpolitik speaks on the war.

    Henry Kissinger: Ukraine Should Give Up Territory to Russia to Reach Peace

    Former secretary of state Henry Kissinger has said Ukraine should accept giving up part of its territory to reach a peace deal with Russia, and end the now three-month-long war immediately.

    Talking at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Switzerland, on Monday, 98-year-old Kissinger said that failing to restart negotiations with Russia and continuing to antagonize Moscow could have disastrous consequences for Europe's stability in the long term.

    "Negotiations need to begin in the next two months before it creates upheavals and tensions that will not be easily overcome," he said.

    "Ideally, the dividing line should be a return to the status quo ante. Pursuing the war beyond that point would not be about the freedom of Ukraine, but a new war against Russia itself."



    Kissinger's point seems to be that the longer the war goes on, the more unstable Europe becomes, so better to end the war sooner rather than later.

    What do you think? If the war goes on for a year or longer would that be damaging to Europe or should Europe just suck it up and fight the Russkies to the last Ukrainian?
     
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  2. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The big picture:
    We left Afghanistan and got involved in Ukraine. If some agreement is reached to end the war in Ukraine then where will we go?
     
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  3. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    At present, Russia appears able to win in Ukraine and take the whole country.

    Ex comedian President Zelenskiyi has requested 34.7 BILLION dollars in the most powerful US advanced weapons systems to reverse the tide.

    If 34.7 Billion is for June to the end of September, then that is a rate of 104.1 Billion per year.

    This would give Ukraine the 3rd highest rate of military spending in the World, even if Ukraine contributed nothing.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
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  4. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US wants to keep those advanced systems to itself, so a compromise to end the war would be desirable to all three sides.
     
  5. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t Kissinger claim in 2012 that there will be no Israel in 10 years?
    :lol:
     
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  6. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, the reason Israel is protected strong(outside of just our alliance) is that as much as the Arabs hate the Jewish and Americans, they hate themselves even more. Most violent region in the world, bar none.

    But that's not the point of this thread, so before it very quickly devolves(thank you) let's get back on topic: My thoughts align with Kissinger. The contested zones will expand, not deter the war effort. If NATO is a red line to the Russians, Putin is not Obama. The Russian military brass has shown with blood and weapons that they will enforce that red line. And more states joining NATO is not strengthening it, but guaranteeing that the alliance will be tested militarily for the first time in its existence.
     
  7. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I’ll side with Boris Johnson who stated that Russia cannot be allowed to win this war. Giving Russia anything will open the door for further conquest and inevitable conflict with NATO. Also, if Ukraine concedes some territory then it will prove to every current and future despot in the world that if they want to grab their neighbors land, then can just send mercenaries into a neighboring region, and create “separatist movements” within independent nations. What’s to guarantee that they won’t pull Donbas in Baltic nations, Finland, or even in the U.S.? What are we going to do? Nuke them without first open attack? It’s better to nip it in the bud before this appeasement metastases into a real multi-demensional global conflict with each side tryin to rot each other from the inside.
     
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  8. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Dictator Pooteen can never get enough. He wants to seize the whole of Ukraine, then he'll attack other neighboring countries.

    Ruzzia is a constant threat to Europe. It must be weakened to the point where it can no longer wage war.
     
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  9. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    The issue is, you're not nipping it in the bud. You're really just accelerating it further. What you need to do is provide a cost analysis to Putin and the Russian military brass that it's not worth it. To them, NATO is their red line. It's something that they are prepared to use nuclear weapons on. Now, the big question for the Europeans(and for us, since we're dragged into it) ARE YOU? Is the integrity of the NATO alliance worth a nuclear confrontation? Article 5?

    I regret to inform Sweden and Finland that contrary to our old coot of a President, my answer is HELL NO. I'm not looking to "fight for democracy", but for America's existence. I will not choose Europe over America, and that's the real choice this war presents to us.

    From the Ukrainian position, they're truly screwed as Russian logistics have finally overcome early deficits and they're marching on the Ukrainians, such that if we aided the kind of help they need then yes we'd be more or less dragged into the war. Because we missed the crucial point before any war was launched, we're caught in this zero sum game where we must make choices.

    We fought two world wars for Europe, there will not be a third. I'd communicate to Johnson that he and the European Union must come to terms with the Russians, whatever those terms are. If the Europeans want us to fight a third world war, as I've said: We must be able to join the European Union. Open the markets completely to the US, and give us the skin in the game worth that level of commitment.
     
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  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Did he?
     
  11. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's a position no one in Ukraine (and perhaps other countries neighboring Russia) wants to take because it rewards Russia for unprovoked aggression.
     
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  12. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    That’s the whole point of NATO - collective defense, which includes the possibility of using nukes. The U.S. joined that alliance and took on the commitment to get directly involved if any country triggers article 5. What you are calling for is us dishonoring our own commitment to others.
    I, for one, think that NATO needs to be reformed or legally eliminated and replaced with something else, like a tiered system - primary members (US, UK, Australia and Canada) commit everything in case of war and secondary members just get pretty much unlimited weapons and no boots on the ground, with two tiers having different requirements of commitment that must be regularly demonstrated. But, since NATO is an active agreement, a ratified treaty, defending NATO nations with everything we got is the federal law, which means that if we ignore article 5 then our government would violate its own law. On the top of that we’d have a massive fallout from the destruction of our reputation by refusing to honor our commitment, which means that we will become an isolated island nation with no allies - in a rather cold and hostile world.
    I think accepting most of the current nations into NATO was a mistake and exposed us to unnecessary risks with virtually no rewards, and accepting Finland and Sweden would make this problem even worse, but since we are already here and have these commitments in place we can’t just backtrack from them, especially at the time when the security situation is becoming very dangerous. Doing so would spark many wars and would completely erode our international standing.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
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  13. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think Kissinger is one of the all-time great administration officials, but maybe he is now past his prime. Appeasing the bully to mitigate your annoyance never ever works; just ask Neville Chamberlain.
     
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  14. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just to put things in perspective, 34.7 Bn is a vast amount of money, from now until the end of September. Given how delighted Congress was to allocate 34.7 Bn for the first four months, assuming they are equally willing to give that much for the rest of the year that should be enough for a very effective counterattack on Russia to affect the 'regime change' Biden was talking about.

    Military Spending incl Ukraine 2022 top 10.png
     
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  15. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The regime changes in Iraq, Syria, and Libya have been so successful I'm sure the Russians will be lining up for theirs.
     
  16. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I can find no validation that Kissinger said that. Are you able to locate any?

    If a nuclear warhead is used, or Putin falls and some of Russia's nuclear weapons end up on the blackmarket this will all look like less of a good idea.

    A majority of Americans want to rein in the sanctions on Russia.

    An AP/NORC poll showed 51% believe we should be "limiting damage to the U.S. economy, even if it means sanctions on Russia are less effective."

    Only 45% said we should be "sanctioning Russia as effectively as possible, even if it damages the U.S. economy."
     
  17. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Hey Henry, why don't you give up your house to Putin. Lead by example.
     
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  18. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of us know we have not gone into Ukraine.
     
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  19. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Henry,maybe we should offer to give him Alaska if he stops fighting.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
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  20. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Probably back to Afghanistan. There are reports that Al Kaida in Afghanistan is ready to mount more attacks on our homeland.
     
  21. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Henry Kissenger should recognize he died a long time ago and ****. "I" think the free world draws a line in the sand and stands up to Putin, right there, right now. WE, need to back and support Ukraine until putin is ousted or his army crawls back to russia with it's tail between it's legs.
     
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  22. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  23. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What an incredibly ignorant and myopic viewpoint. When the day comes that everyone in the world falls under the boot of the Russians and Chinese, while American regressives stared smugly at their navels, I hope you enjoy being a peon in a sweatshop.

    If I am not for myself, who will be?
    If I am only for myself, what am I?
    And if not now, when?
     
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  24. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    He supports defending his own country not other people's countries. I agree with him and I have been in the military defending someone else's country. Why do you not agree with him? Russia will never be a problem for the U.S. I do believe we will eventually defend our country militarily against the Chinese. It won't be pleasant at all.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
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  25. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    The Chinese won't be a "problem" either; though their **** probably actually works.
     

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