UK's Rwanda solution to illegal migration flickers. Is it dead?

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Pixie, Jun 15, 2022.

  1. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Has the Johnson administration and Patel specifically come up with the right solution to the illegal immigration problem with its agreement to fly them out to Rwanda and refuse to process their UK asylum claims?
     
  2. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's certainly an election winner. I'll go that far.

    I think the better question might be, do they have the balls to go through with it?
    There will be bad optics involved.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
  3. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    14,838
    Likes Received:
    4,814
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not convinced. Opinions appear to be strongly divided with the stronger support among establish Conservative voters anyway. Plus, if they're unable to fully implement it and/or it fails to have the promised impact on illegal migration across the Channel, the supporters will be disappointed while the opponents will still be angry.

    That seems clear (right or wrong). The question is whether they have the ability to go through with it.
     
    Baff likes this.
  4. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If they try and go through with it and fail, lots of the MP's who block it will fail to get re-elected.

    That's how Boris got his last landslide.

    All Boris has to do is convince people that he is trying to and that his opposition are blocking him and the people will do the rest.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
  5. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    6,990
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Fish em out the water and ship em off back to France
     
  6. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    You seem fixated with France.
    Why not Belgium or the Netherlands or Sweden or Denmark?
    I mean you want them anywhere but where they want to go.
    It is against the international law to kidnap people and transport them against their will.
    That is called people smuggling.
     
  7. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's called deportation.
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  8. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    10,333
    Likes Received:
    10,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Weel, how come nae ship thaim up tae scootlund. Th' fresh bracing breeze wull dae thaim guid.
     
  9. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    6,990
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    France....its where they come from you daft fart.....France to Kent....we have them the Church graveyard down the road....jeezuz are take your head outta your arse and look around you

    ah bless...so what...!!??....guess what....there are stupid people in this world...why should the UK tax payer pay for their stupidity....we have food banks, old folks struggling to feed themselves and people that can't afford to live in this country....why the holy fuk should I care about a bunch of stupid ********s looking for a better life in the UK especially when its at the UK tax payers expense...
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,374
    Likes Received:
    17,358
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Rwanda is an excellent country.
     
  11. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    You came this close to being reported for your colourful language. Next time you will be.
    It doesn't matter where they came from last. They are not French and have no spécial connection with France any more than any other country they travelled through.
    I'll tell you why "we" should care.
    "We" provoked the wars that resulted in their lives being in danger. If not homeless now, and because "we" stirred the hornets' nest and lost, gay people, perceived spies and traitors are now running for their lives.
    Partly because the UK abandoned them.
    The taxpayer paid to create wars across the Middle East resulting in millions of deaths. Now they are asked to mop up their mistakes. They spent billions bombing the homes of innocent people. Now there isnt enough money.
    What the intended end was, was to flatten countries, put pro western leaders in place and make à fortune reconstructing them. Ukraine is next on the list.
    Well it didn't work out that way.
    And your ridiculous Home Office can't put together decent legal immigration access to the crisis its government created.
    Moral awareness is not on your side.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
    philosophical likes this.
  12. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Getting better every day.
     
  13. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    10,333
    Likes Received:
    10,697
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    People probably think you're joking, but it's actually not bad at all for an African destination.
     
  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,374
    Likes Received:
    17,358
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am an admirer of the Rwandans.
     
    Melb_muser likes this.
  15. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Rwanda.
    Hi five.
     
  16. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    6,990
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'd jolly well disagree most fervently on that particular point raised my dear little pixie! Indeed one must consider extremely carefully the provenance of said coves in order to ascertain whether they are by definition migrants, refugees, asylum seekers or indeed just immigrants, rather bothersome all this legal nonsense. The law takes a careful look at the definition of each category. It's a deuced minefield you understand and one must be dashed careful making sweeping assertions. It decidedly does matter my dear pixie!

    Oh gosh...we did did we....I say how utterly beastly of we; hold on a secy though, maybe they did? Those nefarious "theys" again, they lurk and sculk getting everyone into such a frightful pickle. Don't you find though, that everyone invokes the nebulous "we" or "they" or "then" rather than ferreting into the issues a bit more thoroughly? On the other hand it is dashed bothersome having to dig out fact from fantasy

    Not aware of moral awareness as a concept? I'm aware of morals. Indeed also aware of morals that folk adopt in order to pretend to look good in front of others without understanding the difficulties of defending such morals; the high ground in the face of competing moralities and the selfish interests of others pretending to be full morality. But indeed you're right we should allow everyone here irrespective of their circumstances. I have some space in my garden for a few tents and can grub up the flowers and veggies and make some space for a few latrines and cooking fires. I'll come out of retirement and toil for a few extra years... hurl the mam'sahib back into employment so we can pay even more tax to look after these poor starving lost little souls...indeed who wouldn't!?

    Well old pixie jolly nice to chat as always,
    what ho and toodles for now.
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  17. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    What à load of opinionated waffle that amounts to nothing.
    An asylum seeker is one who asks for asylum.
    This gives them rights under the 1951 United Nations Convention on Refugees .
    They must apply from inside the country of destination.
    They cannot be shipped out against their will at the convenience of à country they want to seek asylum in.
    They do not want to seek asylum in France. Therefore they have no connection with France (or anywhere else) and France has no responsibility for them.
    In addition the understanding was that they be returned to the FIRST safe place, not the LAST.
    Under the Dublin Agreement, a voluntary EU agreement designed to spread the load of the tens of thousands of migrants crossing the Med, the signatories agreed that migrants (This and all terms are legally defined) could be sent back to the FIRST safe country they entered among the signatories.
    Often This meant Italy or Greece unless there were understandings acted upon. This is why the EU asked members to either voluntarily accept them or set quotas. Which the UK refused to do.
    It did NOT mean à country could arbitrarily choose somewhere to off load them.
    In courts of Human Rights you cannot merely scoop up people and ship them to where they dont want to be. Your govt has just learned that. It is technically kidnap. Nor does anywhere have to accept them (unless they have a legal claim such as citizenship). That is their sovereign right to protect their borders.
    Now you may think that because you don't like to be responsible for them, you can shovel them back across the channel.
    I am afraid you can't. And I am disgusted at how many Tory MP's tell you you can. Clearly they know nothing about internationally agreed law and are voter baiting.
    So please stop advocating illegal facile and mythical solutions to problems everyone else has too.
     
  18. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's what you would like the convention to mean, but unfortunately it's not that simple as the countries being migrated to have rights enshrined by the convention too.

    One of which being that they do not have to offer refugee status to people who are not directly fleeing persecution.
    And those people may be deported.

    They also do not have to house asylum seekers in their own country for processing, only in a safe country. Rwanda for example.


    The UK by the way did accept many EU migrants under the Dublin agreement. We have ended that agreement however so you can keep them from now on..

    We absolutely can send migrants back to France. We have that physical capability.
    It is one solution available to us. That you describe it as illegal means little to us as we do not care for your laws and ultimately these are decisions taken by the Home Office and not the courts, who all agree that they have no legal authority to take such decisions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
    The Scotsman likes this.
  19. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,066
    Likes Received:
    636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Just in case anybody thinks Boris Johnson and Priti Patel are anything other than self serving, mendacious, evil people may I mention that they are hated by many?
    Priti Patel was found to be a serial bully, but Boris Johnson said it doesn’t matter to him.
    Both are evil people, and those that support them are pretty evil too.
    Just for a laugh can anybody outline official Conservative underlying philosophy, and point out somewhere it is written down?
     
    Pixie likes this.
  20. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    ISTM the underlying philosophy is to promise whatever is easily understood, however impossible or imperfect, and then make excuses as to why they can't happen.
    Because we don't live in the best of all possible worlds.
    More seriously and dangerously, the idea that taking back control means the government of the UK (not of course the people) can change or ignore any law or rules that keep them in check.
    And by dangerous, I mean that this attitude can easily become the actions of àn oligarchy or even à dictatorial. Let's never forget this govt thought it was possible to send Parliament home with à note that said school closed early today.
    There seems to be NO responsibility to the people. Or to the traditions that made the UK so well respected around the world.
    Happily more and more of the public are seeing this. I just hope they put an end to the décline before it is too late.
     
  21. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    6,990
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    :D....isn't it amazing the quality of the people I upset.....

    You see Pixie old thing I'm not really preoccupied with the the assumed woes and perceived grievances that the uppity middle classes like to lump onto the shoulders of the great unwashed. All these folk rowing madly across the channel in their rickerty old dingies do so with the full knowledge of what they're doing. They assume that the woke folk in the land of plenty will adopt them and shower them with money and comfort all at the tax payers expense. The UK.... ah such a splendid choice of destination don't you think? However, we have the great unwashed, you know those dreadful folk struggling to find homes they can afford, to put food on their plates and indeed to eek out a living; thus listening to the likes of you and the lawyers and politicians haggle over the diabolical injustices of the poor paddling folk as they arrive sopping wet on the beaches of Kent....well....it's just odorous noise.

    I'm sure there are horrible stories these paddlers can tell and indeed how sad it is to see their bloated bodies bobbing alone the shoreline with the haddock nibbling at their corpses but....well.....so what? Life is full of hardship and woe but sufficed to say snowflakes such as yourself will still wail and tear their hair out at the utter injustice of it all and welcome these poor down trodden souls with tea and biscuits on the beaches of Kent....when you're next on you way do pop in (just off Junction 4 of the M2) and I'll replenish you're dwindling supply of tea bags and Custard Creams. In the meantime its just possible you don't really understand just how much I couldn't care less about these people and their plight until we've started to right some of the trifling injustices of those great unwashed already here.

    So, in the meantime my little snowflake I'll keep toiling and paying my taxes in order to mollify you're assumed moral high ground happy in the knowledge that my taxes are squandered on the nonsensical haggling of politicians and lawyers and woke folk salving their middle class consciences.

    Toodles old thing...:)
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
  22. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    When you are happy to discuss the reality of law, which you comletely ignored, get back to me.
    The rest is purely your perceived class envy.
    Which no one can fix except you.
     
  23. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    6,990
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Greetings old snowflake.
    Ah the law...well....the law is frightfully complex don't you agree. I am sure you have as much of a grasp of it as I do (pretty much zero) so let's refrain from pretending we are lawyers otherwise we'll only come over as dilettantes or poseurs with our only source of information being wikipedia and newspapers god forbid! Isn't the internet wonderful it makes us all instant experts on a whole gamut of impenetrable subjects and disciplines. If it were that easy to understand and as simple to implement then I'm sure vast gobs of money would not be being wasted in courtrooms throughout the land. So rather then proving our knowledge is a mile wide and an inch think let's leave that aside shall we.

    Just a thought, what is actually wrong with France I wonder? What confuses me is why those boat people struggle to arrive here on their rickerty little dinghies having resided in France for a reasonable time? One would rather suspect that they perceive France as an uncivilised and unsafe country? Perhaps its the constant threat of garlic fumes that cause them to potter over the channel in search of Cornish Pasties or Fish and Chips.

    Class envy....hmmm....that I assume is your rather civilised way of a deflection from confronting an inconvenient reality. Until I see the current inhabitants of the UK in less of a struggle to make ends meet I shall assume your "class envy" synopsis revolves around a complete disinterest in the have-nots of the UK or their rights and desires. The woke brigades marching forth righting imaginary wrongs have their place I'm sure, it fulfils their wanton middle class dream of creating some Kantian utopia whereby everyone has placed at their feet the entitlement to goods and services they seem to need and desire. Unfortunately life doesn't work like that. Someone has to pay for it.
     
  24. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2021
    Messages:
    7,224
    Likes Received:
    2,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I have been reading and discussing this issue for over 5 years.
    Clearly you have not.
    I have read the relevant documents and discussed them.
    Clearly you have not or you would not

    Otherwise you would not have any ""just à thoughts" about France or any other country the migrants have passed through. The answer is in the law..
    The rest is just à rant.
     
  25. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your laws leave much to be desired.
    We will use our own.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022

Share This Page