All young gay women, and a few gay men, thinking about 'trans' should watch this video

From my experience, it's not so rare, although bi's seem a little more frequent than outside the trans community itself. The difference might be locality, or even just the ones we happen to come across. Has anyone done a study that you are aware of looking at such statistics?

I agree and have even advised against such once. And I'm sure it doesn't help when people lie to themselves as to what they are as well. Like the one GF I had mentioned earlier.

I'm usually pretty good at catching such things. Sorry about that.

I try. There are plenty of times that I will go against an argument even if it supports my position because the argument itself fails. It's amazing how many people think you are against the position when it's only the argument.

The problem is that this is a perception that does not necessarily reflect the reality of the child's situation. Those who are both outside of the situation, and are inclined to think that trans or gay is not real or is a choice or similar, are not seeing what the child is actually going through. Because they opposed these things they automatically assume that they know better than the professionals and that the professionals are part of the movement and problem. I agree that a given child cold be going through a stage that could be mistaken for transgenderism. That is why it is especially important to being seeing a professional who can determine, which will probably take time (something no one wants to do any more it seems), if they actually are transgender or similar. But if you have a person who has been for years, not months, years, that they are a certain way, then it is not a rush to give the child puberty blockers because this has been an ongoing thing. Phases won't last that long. Of course it doesn't help that we have seen in the past where the medical community is too quick treat ADD and then high functioning autism and whatever else has been the condition of the year, so to speak. And I agree that if a child starts in their teen years with a claim of being transgender that puberty blockers should not be the first thing that happens. But we also have to take into account whether they are having issues like suicide ideations. Something like that might well warrant an immediate use of blockers, relatively speaking. The problem lies in that opponents want to claim that it's being done with all children who make the claim and that no thought is ever put into it.

 

No it’s common sense. LGBT rights are wrapped together so what happens to one happens to another one.

For example, what’s the argument against trans people? They don’t dress in the right clothing. What’s drag?

 

Not allowing kids to have sex change surgery or drugs will not effect a normal gay individual at all.

 

I don't know if that is true, and even it if is true, it doesn't square, in my estimation, with the OP given that it's not about 'more people', it's about 'some people', which is to say that it wasn't a study into the size of a particular demographic, it was about shedding light on a particular demographic, and I'm not seeing any evidence of bigotry in her reportage.

 

I agree with that view, but that view has NOTHING to do with the premise of the OP.

Thing is, if I agree with that view, then you can be assured I know that it has nothing to do with the premise of the OP. It's related, of course, but it is beside the point being raised.

 

That's assuming there are no influences outside of parents. If this was the case you could blame all child abuse on parents not engaging.

I'm not sure how this relates.

 

You do realize that, while not the majority, there are still plenty of Drag Queens and Drag Kings who are straight, right? Or do you only believe in stereotypes?

 

My concern is those in a position of authority on which parents and children rely, some might have an 'agenda' and they shouldn't.

How can we be assured of this?

 

The people in 'authority' are 1. pediatic doctors who specialize in treating gender dysphoira work in medical practices with other doctors, and they are not starving and desperate for work to pay the electric bill. They have very long waiting lists and can pick and choose from patients with a scale of less serious to more serious cases. Most pediatric doctors of any specialty are just not interested in pressing suspect interventions down the throats of minor kids or pushing it on reluctant parents in non- emergent circumstances, because they see themselves as clinician with ethics, and responsibilities both to their patients, to these parents and to their partners in that practice.

They want to follow any best practice guidelines established by their peers for diagnosis and treatment of gender dysphoria that they can find, because its better science, and medicine and economics to follow those guidelines. Doctors are trained to look first for less intrusive less risky interventions, before they consider more intrusive more risky treatments. Even surgeons do not want a reputation for 'grabbing at the saw' at the first sign of a problem, and their partners are not interested in having one with a name on the door next to theirs. It leads to a bad reputation among colleagues outside and inside the same specialty, potential bad press down the line, alongside expensive litigation based on not following best practice medicine and that is bad for the bottom line.

The other people with 'authority' are 2. the legal gaurdians/parents who will be making these appointments, sitting in on the decision-making, and handing over the insurance and paying the deductables and co-pays. Now parents and families are not prone to be anything but even more sceptical of a gender dysphoria diagnosis because it involves a period of denial and serious adjustment emotionally for themselves and they really don't blossom to the idea of surgeries and hormones that will change the child they raised. they will be reluctant, not eager, and they will look for those same less intrusive, less risky interventions too.

The other people with 'authority' are the insurance health care specialists who approve the coverage of treatment plan that hold onto the purse strings very tightly. I don't have to go into details for you to see how eager they will be to pay these bills but they are extensive. The surgeries themselves for gender re-assignment cost between $7,500 and $25,000 and that does not include the pre or post surgical visits and ancillary costs. Nobody's paper route or burger flipping job after school is going to make this happen.

All of these represent impediments between a kid and a hard to reverse surgical procedure, and these obstacles tend to take years to overcome. Next thing you know, the 16 year old, is 20 years and has a much more mature approach to this decision than he did when he was 16!

The solution to this problem that you present, is the same as it is for any treatment, whether it be a new chemo regimen for leukemia, or new method to do dialysis on babies, or a new depression medication developed for pediatric cases. You need more science with more studies on long term outcomes with data that are accumulated over 5, 10, and 15 years so that the best practice guidelines for diagnosis and treatment of gender dysphoria get better at measuring risks and benefits and predicting outcomes so that the doctors, who actually want to the right thing by kids, and parents who also want to do the right thing by their kids can!

The systems and the pschology behind this, already present the checks and balances for inevitable overreach with new ideas.
People like you just have to give the science more time to get better and better and there will be a 'course correction'.

 

so I'm a man who is in a relationship with another man as I understand it this is what gay means.

I am most certainly do not support giving children hormones or performing any kind of so-called gender of harming surgery on anybody under the age of 18.

Are you saying I can't be in a relationship with my partner because I don't agree with this insanity because I am and what are you going to do about it?

it's that you shouldn't be giving hormones and surgery to minors that isn't a right you do not have the right to abuse kids and you never should.

I'm not sure of any special right a trans person needs. One could say the same sex marriage was a gay rights issue.

But mostly what I hear that's called trans rights is the right to dictate to others what they decided is male and female. Transphobes seem to strictly be straight men or lesbian that don't want to get busy with a trans woman. Or something made up nonsense about restrooms.

Show me the rights that you need and why you need them and I'll absolutely support them but if you think you deserve to be considered a woman even though you're male that's not a right anyone gets.

If you want the right to castrate and mutually children no you don't get that right it's not a right anyone has.

 

Our pal is trans and lesbian. Hope that clears it up for you.

 

I've outlined a compromise proposal in another thread to just be willing to give them a half dose of hormone blockers. This won't "turn them into the other gender", but will just delay/block their gender-specific adolescent development a little bit. Seems fair and doesn't seem too extreme.

 

You do realize that even a full dose of a hormone blocker won't "turn them into the other gender", right? It's a hormone blocker, not the hormone therapy they would get if actually transitioning. The bold above is exactly what a hormone blocker does at a full dose.

 

Puberty blocker drugs are chemical castration you just can't partially castrate somebody.

We may see these people one day through The living daylights out of these doctors to the point where nobody will even consider doing this treatment anymore it's just sad that so many people have to be abused to get there.

 

After we put aside your uneducated layperson hyperbole, what we are really left with is just another personal and private medical decision about the most appropriate plan of treatment for a specific medical diagnosis in a specific pationt.

Real conservatives prefer that govt not interfere or prejudge in these decisions, but leave them between a patient and his or her physician. If there is a minor, then we have a patient, a physician and his or her legal guardian. That legal guardian is probably not going to be you, so how about you let them figure it out.

 

years of contempt based on arrogance really mean very little except for that your position is weak.

that's a lie it's not a medical diagnosis it's psychological and it's quackery call to bilk somebody off of some people.

That's why they have to aim so young.

This is no different medically speaking that convergent therapy it's actually the same exact thing except for it's more diabolical because it maims people in a very physical way.

Pretending that it's a medical decision is dishonesty and it makes me wonder why the hell are you lying for these people?

appeals to purity are logical fallacies.

Basically put no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

when you're praying on somebody that you psychologically abused for the better part of a decade there's no physician involved. There's a con artist a stupid cult and people who want to play like it's no big deal for political nonsense.

the words are victim and abuser for caught artist and mark.

This unbelievable bs that this cult has to pretend and somehow reality is such an utter farce I can't believe people fall for it.

Sometimes the legal guardian is the perpetrator of the abuse because they want to use their kids abuse them for political points. Other times they're victims as well.

What screw falls out of people's heads that makes them believe that castrating children changes their sex?

These kids when they grow up will hate you and you deserve. History will probably remember you worse than they did the people who were segregationists.

 

More hyperbolic crap and idiocy. Medical doctors and clinicians are doing the diagnosing and reccomending between various therapy options. It kinda sucks that you are not a medical doctor and have no education and so nobody gives a **** what nasty names you call either the interventions or the physicians. You have a problem called transphobia, and I think you should worry about getting that taken care of, and mind your own business on what patients suffering from gender dysphoria do.

 

more trying to legitimize this insanity.

I'm thinking there's a lot more people in this world that think screwing up kids to show how woke you are is wrong.

so this is why transphobia is not really a bad thing it's just having sense. It's a compliment you're saying that I'm not psychotic.

 

Wow another term that requires a clinical diagnosis, misapprehended by a layperson without so much as a single year in med school. I am so shocked. Stop putting your own pathetic transphobic agenda ahead of the welfare of patients. This matter is between them and their doctor, not you and them and their doctor. You were not invited into that private space, because you don't belong there.

 

You can attack me all you want. You're pathetic little name calling means very little to me and it seems to be all you have.

Doctors that castrate children are acting unethically. I don't care if you and others pretend that that makes them the opposite sex. It doesn't and the victims of this scam know it or will know it.

If knowing reality makes me transphobic then it's a complement.

 

More hyperbolic garbage. The only thing worse than the ignorant spouting off about medicine, is the ignorant spouting off about medicine for their own agenda driven reasons. You are no more qualified to discuss the ethics of the medical profession, than the clinical science you keep blathering about. Bigotry does not belong here. this conversation is reserved for trained professional doctors and their patients. Its time to mind your own business.

 

The ethical concern here is simple. First Do no harm. Castrating children does harm it's as clear cut of violation of ethics as you can get.

I'm just going to start cutting out your personal emotional nonsense.

 

In a forum of crazy arguments, that sounds like it's in the top three. You are arguing that issues should only be discussed by "experts" and no one should have an opinion or discuss it unless it's expert approved?

 

I want the ethics code itself used as the basis of the argument because that is the code itself. https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/ethics/code-medical-ethics-overview

 

Well you are free to explain how it's relevant.