Awwww! Good for you! So how do you propose to stop other people having sex? Stand on a street corner telling them they are sinning? Mandate chastity belts (which I would not object to if they were for males only )
But the bottom line is that more would be achieved if the main causes of unwanted pregnancy were addressed rather than standing on proverbial soapboxes decrying what is often painful choice
"""Without it humans would not be around"" ...what a silly "argument"....DO please show where women are obligated to supply YOU with humans...SHOW ME!!!!! A ZEF HARMS women...so they have a right to stop the harm. I see harming women is "a natural function" to YOU....and a hearty "SO WHAT" to YOU... Diarrhea is a natural function... do you enjoy it ??? Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks) altered appetite and senses of taste and smell nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester) heartburn and indigestion constipation weight gain dizziness and light-headedness bloating, swelling, fluid retention hemmorhoids abdominal cramps yeast infections congested, bloody nose acne and mild skin disorders skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen) mild to severe backache and strain increased headaches difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping increased urination and incontinence bleeding gums pica breast pain and discharge swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases) extreme pain on delivery hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover) Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy: stretch marks (worse in younger women) loose skin permanent weight gain or redistribution abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh) changes to breasts increased foot size varicose veins scarring from episiotomy or c-section other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty) increased proclivity for hemmorhoids loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis) higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates) Occasional complications and side effects: complications of episiotomy spousal/partner abuse hyperemesis gravidarum temporary and permanent injury to back severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies) dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele) pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies) eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death) gestational diabetes placenta previa anemia (which can be life-threatening) thrombocytopenic purpura severe cramping embolism (blood clots) medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby) diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication) serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis) hormonal imbalance ectopic pregnancy (risk of death) broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone") hemorrhage and numerous other complications of delivery refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures) severe post-partum depression and psychosis research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease Less common (but serious) complications: peripartum cardiomyopathy cardiopulmonary arrest magnesium toxicity severe hypoxemia/acidosis massive embolism increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer) malignant arrhythmia circulatory collapse placental abruption obstetric fistula More permanent side effects: future infertility permanent disability death."""""""""""""""""""
Never said that they were obligated to supply me with humans. As such I need not prove a strawman. But like it or not, it is a fact that without women (or men) humans would not exist. That is a fact. And just like taking a pill that can cause harm, they chose the possibility for all of that. They CHOOSE to have sex KNOWING that it can lead to pregnancy.
SO WHAT? What TF does that have to do with abortion or women's rights...nothing. YOU claimed here: Kal'Stang said: ↑ Yes. Emphatically yes. Again. No where have I ever argued for such. This is a strawman argument that has no bearing on anything that I have said. A ZEF is not attacking the woman. Pregnancy is literally a natural function of the woman's body. Without it humans would not be around.""""" And I showed you to be wrong so you changed the topic to """They CHOOSE to have sex KNOWING that it can lead to pregnancy.""" which has nothing to do with the ZEF's effect on women...or her right to stop the harm...
FoxHastings said: ↑ """Without it humans would not be around"" ...what a silly "argument"....DO please show where women are obligated to supply YOU with humans...SHOW ME!!!!! A ZEF HARMS women...so they have a right to stop the harm. I see harming women is "a natural function" to YOU....and a hearty "SO WHAT" to YOU... Diarrhea is a natural function... do you enjoy it ??? Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks) altered appetite and senses of taste and smell nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester) heartburn and indigestion constipation weight gain dizziness and light-headedness bloating, swelling, fluid retention hemmorhoids abdominal cramps yeast infections congested, bloody nose acne and mild skin disorders skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen) mild to severe backache and strain increased headaches difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping increased urination and incontinence bleeding gums pica breast pain and discharge swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases) extreme pain on delivery hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover) Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy: stretch marks (worse in younger women) loose skin permanent weight gain or redistribution abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh) changes to breasts increased foot size varicose veins scarring from episiotomy or c-section other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty) increased proclivity for hemmorhoids loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis) higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates) Occasional complications and side effects: complications of episiotomy spousal/partner abuse hyperemesis gravidarum temporary and permanent injury to back severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies) dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele) pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies) eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death) gestational diabetes placenta previa anemia (which can be life-threatening) thrombocytopenic purpura severe cramping embolism (blood clots) medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby) diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication) serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis) hormonal imbalance ectopic pregnancy (risk of death) broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone") hemorrhage and numerous other complications of delivery refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures) severe post-partum depression and psychosis research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease Less common (but serious) complications: peripartum cardiomyopathy cardiopulmonary arrest magnesium toxicity severe hypoxemia/acidosis massive embolism increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer) malignant arrhythmia circulatory collapse placental abruption obstetric fistula More permanent side effects: future infertility permanent disability death.""""""""""""""""""" Uggaduh, why didn't you read the headings? Covered your eyes?? It is not all about "rare complications""... Why do you try to minimize what women go through? That says an awfull lot about you( all bad) If you had any of those you'd be whining....I'm not whining , I'm showing science deniers what women suffer in pregnancy.
I'm not a science denier. I taught science for a couple of years. And your post is a perfect example of your formatting flaws.
Except that it does. You like to act like pregnancy is something to be trashed. As if it means nothing. It most certainly does mean something. It means our very existence. You really need to learn how to use the quote function. And you showed nothing of the kind. Nothing you said shows that a ZEF attacks a woman. Nothing. Can pregnancy have complications? Most certainly. That has never been denied and has been around even before humankind existed. But if you think those complications equals "attack" then you don't know the meaning of the word or are purposefully using it in the wrong way in order to elicit an emotional response. As far as harm goes, she chose to accept that harm the moment she had sex knowing that pregnancy could be a result. Just like a person chooses to accept the harm caused by medications that have harmful side effects. Which is all that the complications from pregnancy is, a side effect. Using it as an excuse to kill a human life is no more acceptable than blaming drugs for killing someone.
FoxHastings said: ↑ """Without it humans would not be around"" ...what a silly "argument"....DO please show where women are obligated to supply YOU with humans...SHOW ME!!!!! A ZEF HARMS women...so they have a right to stop the harm. I see harming women is "a natural function" to YOU....and a hearty "SO WHAT" to YOU... Diarrhea is a natural function... do you enjoy it ??? Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks) altered appetite and senses of taste and smell nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester) heartburn and indigestion constipation weight gain dizziness and light-headedness bloating, swelling, fluid retention hemmorhoids abdominal cramps yeast infections congested, bloody nose acne and mild skin disorders skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen) mild to severe backache and strain increased headaches difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping increased urination and incontinence bleeding gums pica breast pain and discharge swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases) extreme pain on delivery hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover) Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy: stretch marks (worse in younger women) loose skin permanent weight gain or redistribution abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh) changes to breasts increased foot size varicose veins scarring from episiotomy or c-section other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty) increased proclivity for hemmorhoids loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis) higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates) Occasional complications and side effects: complications of episiotomy spousal/partner abuse hyperemesis gravidarum temporary and permanent injury to back severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies) dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele) pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies) eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death) gestational diabetes placenta previa anemia (which can be life-threatening) thrombocytopenic purpura severe cramping embolism (blood clots) medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby) diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication) serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis) hormonal imbalance ectopic pregnancy (risk of death) broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone") hemorrhage and numerous other complications of delivery refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures) severe post-partum depression and psychosis research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease Less common (but serious) complications: peripartum cardiomyopathy cardiopulmonary arrest magnesium toxicity severe hypoxemia/acidosis massive embolism increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer) malignant arrhythmia circulatory collapse placental abruption obstetric fistula More permanent side effects: future infertility permanent disability death.""""""""""""""""""" Uggaduh, why didn't you read the headings? Covered your eyes?? It is not all about "rare complications""... Why do you try to minimize what women go through? That says an awfull lot about you( all bad) If you had any of those you'd be whining....I'm not whining , I'm showing science deniers what women suffer in pregnancy. LOL Stumped ya again so it's back to your No. Excuse: Formatting flaws.....funny how you don't have problems with formatting until you have no answers
DUH, pregnancy harms women, the ZEF is causing the harm which is like attacking somone, it is causing harm. If anyone caused you the harm listed from pregnancy YOU would think you were being attacked ( and you are).. and have the right to fight back it's called self defense.
Attacking requires intent. If someone hits a patch of ice while driving and hits your car, causing you harm...did they attack you? No. It's a side effect and you do not have the right to "fight back". There is no grounds to claim self defense. If someone falls off a roof and lands on you, causing your collar bone to break.... did they attack you? No. Its a side effect of them falling off the roof. You do not have any right to "fight back". There is no grounds to claim self defense. Again, attacking requires intent. And there is no way anyone can legitimately claim that a ZEF "attacks" anyone. How you tried to use this claim while also calling it a "mindless clump of cells" just shows how you ignore reality in order to justify the killing of a human life.
FoxHastings said: ↑ DUH, pregnancy harms women, the ZEF is causing the harm which is like attacking somone, it is causing harm. If anyone caused you the harm listed from pregnancy YOU would think you were being attacked ( and you are).. and have the right to fight back it's called self defense. IF a fetus is deemed a "person" which Anti-Choicers think it is, then no "person" can inflict that kind of harm on another. ALL people should have the right to stop that harm.
FoxHastings said: ↑ DUH, pregnancy harms women, the ZEF is causing the harm which is like attacking somone, it is causing harm. If anyone caused you the harm listed from pregnancy YOU would think you were being attacked ( and you are).. and have the right to fight back it's called self defense. Yes, a fetus has no brain function, it's not a person, (Thank you for admitting that ) so no, it can't form intent...but it can cause harm just like a cancerous tumor that everyone should have the right to remove...it is harming them. IF a fetus is deemed a "person" which Anti-Choicers think it is, then no "person" can inflict that kind of harm on another. ALL people should have the right to stop that harm.
1) IIRC a "right to self defense" is not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution. 2) Even if it were, a "right to self defense" is not unlimited.
FoxHastings said: ↑ DUH, pregnancy harms women, the ZEF is causing the harm which is like attacking somone, it is causing harm. If anyone caused you the harm listed from pregnancy YOU would think you were being attacked ( and you are).. and have the right to fight back it's called self defense. IF a fetus is deemed a "person" which Anti-Choicers think it is, then no "person" can inflict that kind of harm on another. ALL people should have the right to stop that harm. Duh, I just explained it. Do you think people can just willy nilly harm others with no consequences??? Why?
No, but neither can you justify any level of violence just by screaming "SELF DEFENSE"!! That's as wrong as those idiots screaming "NAZIS!!!" in order to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
