Freedom: Guns versus Health Care

I actually have no idea as I’ve never looked into it.

 

No doubt, I never did either. I'd always heard it was pretty pricey, turns out it is. Luckily we didn't have to have any medical services when I was between jobs.

 

There is a conundrum for those who are unemployed, fired, quit, etc, in which UHC can be detrimental for someone who all of a sudden has limited resources. However, my point about which hospitals are nonprofit remains true regardless of which health insurance they have. I never said health insurance is nonprofit, just hospitals, which is where emergency care will occur. Who pays for it will depend on the person's financial situation, medical situation, etc. Or in other words, factors other than the fact that you are employed or once was employed.. I do know that many hospitals, especially nonprofit hospitals do offer their own plans, usually HMO-style insurance, that can be relatively inexpensive.

In a roundabout way, I think what you are arguing is the two-tier system of health insurance, not whether it is a right or not. Those who have union jobs and federal and/or state employment tend to have the best insurance. Fortune 500 companies with 1000 or more employees will have the second best option. On the bottom of the list, depending on the state, is self-employed persons and family-owned small businesses. The two tiers are based on group health insurance as one tier and individual as a second tier. Small businesses with less than 10 employees will generally have to purchase individual plans, this is especially true for single individuals who own their own businesses, have no spouse, no dependents, etc.

Finally, health insurance, no matter if it is government, like Medicare/Medicaid, or private insurance like Aetna or BCBS, is how most hospital bills are paid, but not all. Depending on the plan and the choices you make will depend on the out-of-pocket expenses, deductibles, plan allowances, in network vs out of network, and so forth. And that is the complexity of health insurance these days.

 

I'm trying to make an argument simply that here in the US, our health care system is such that it binds a majority of people to their employer for their coverage and therefore make us less free than having an AR in the gunsafe. Other than that, I don't find a single thing to disagree with in this post. Thanks for taking the time to discuss this. It seems to me though that you are almost willfully missing that there is a pretty fair amount of validity to my assertion that most folks in the US are fully dependent on their employer for the quality of their health care coverage. You just broke it down in a fair assessment of the quality of the coverage based on employment categories, did you not?

 

I make a little less than 24 Grand a year so guess what boat I'm in? According to the government I'm too rich to be poor but in reality I'm too poor to be rich.

They stole all but 265 of my tax return last year claiming that it was because I got the stimulus.

Stimulus my ass it was a short-term high interest loan.

Evidently I'm the grunt that gets to finance everybody else's Medicare or Medicaid while I'm left out in the cold

 

I dont have to price it out to know its a hell of alot more than the $50/mo that gets me more than I need already at the co-op clinic. Plus this localized version of socialized medicine I participate in goes to help my local community, mostly farmers. And I can quit if they raise prices or the care gets shitty. Thats freedom.

 

How can you “know” it’s a “hell of a lot more” than $50/ mo if you’ve never priced it out??? Maybe your company covers the bulk of the cost. Just seems very odd you didn’t even look into it.

 

He’s 42 and nominally healthy it appears. I bet he doesn’t have a 401k either. Eh, @modernpaladin ?

 

There was no stealing. The refund was offset to a federal tax agency, state tax agency, or child support. But based on what you said, it may be an IRS adjustment, a tax liability. You should have received a letter indicating that sometime in January. Either you ignored it or you thought it wasn't worth reading. Or maybe it you never received it by the USPS. I would recommend going online to the IRS website, log in or create an account, to obtain tax transcripts of your tax returns. The one in which your refund was offset and the one in which the offset refund was applied. Then seek a qualified tax professional who can assist you with your options.

As for Medicare, that would depend on how old you are. If 65 or above, you are eligible for part A and B, and possibly choose other options like Part C, D, E, F, and G. If you are under 65, then SSDI and SSI may be your option if and only if you have a qualified disability under Title 42.

 

I can agree to that argument to an extent because I have said that employer-based health care is the best option. Instead of trying to use "freedom" try using the argument that health care should be the same as Auto Insurance or Home Insurance. Auto and Home are created as individual plans whereas health care insurance is created as a group plan. This is why individual health care plans tend to be more expensive than group plans even if you include the employer's portioin of the cost of monthly, bi-monthly, bi-weekly, or weekly deductible costs.

The reason why I say this is because health care is not a right under the law whereas the 2a guarantees the right of firearms that shall not be infringed. But I will not debate what that exactly means in this thread because that will go off topic.

 

At 24 grand a year your family qualifies for every program the government has.
Single ur rate should only be like 50-100 a week.
Far cheaper than nothing at all when an event happens that puts you out of work.

Or just serve 4 years and you get UHC for the rest of ur life. I'm not sure who to thank for that Trump or Obama.

 

As far as military service... At over 40 years old that ship has done sailed.

I tried to get in the army when I was 28 but I was a bad boy back then and served some time and had just gotten out and they did not want me.

Now I just work all the damn time and sleep and sometimes play a little bit.

I should look into something because right now I don't have anything. My job offers no health insurance whatsoever

 

We're all free to go to the doctor. The government hasn't denied anyone's access to medical treatment. So yeah, I'd we're pretty free.

 

The price of gun ownership can be cost prohibitive in some states. So, there you go.

 

And they say abortion should be totally unrestricted.

 

But yet if the woman wants to defend her own life physically they would deny her the best tool possible to do so.

 

Hi, doombug.

I'm going to assume you are seeking rational and logical answers to your question.

As to health care, there are some who are so poor that they cannot afford, say, insulin. That, for them, is a problem.

Guns, on the other hand, do not necessarily cost anything for criminals. There are always gun owners who do not secure their firearms and can be burgled or robbed. Most guns now in criminal hands were once purchased legally through legal sources.

Regards, stay safe 'n well . . . 'n un-shot.

 

An abortian doctor?
Cause the second amendment is still a thing.

 

Except that no one is deny any woman from buying a gun. There isn’t one federal or state law that prohibits women from buying a gun for protection.

 

We should never have done it in the first place. Government has no business being in the health care business. Read the constitution.

 

If she is a felon, then yes, they will deny it. I suppose women getting an abortion will become felon with the new laws. It will be hard to find a job too.

They are neck deep in it with the abortion laws.

 

I think he meant the federal government. The only federal law that relates to abortion AFAIK is the Hyde Amendment which is involved only with funding (and becoming more ignored.)

 

The figure given is likely the employee contribution toward the cost of the employer-based plan. The cost of Cobra is the actual cost of the employer-based plan.

 

Given that for years now the largest single cause of personal bankruptcy has been medical debt, you do have a point.

 

The average in my state is $450/mo. The small company I work for covers what they're required to by law and not a penny more. From what little I've looked into it, I understand its a bit more involved to get a firm quote on a price for health insurance than it is for, say, car insurance or home insurance. I've no interest in wasting my time and getting stuck on more telemarketer lists shopping around for something I don't need and won't use.