Abortion ban amendment shot down in Kansas doesn't bode well for Repubss

Hopelessly lost is your position - crucified. Not understand what law is - nor the will of the people .. nor tyranny.

 

I mean...you can say that all you want. Stomp up and down all you want, but that's now the America we thankfully live in.

The bodily autonomy of the baby a woman willfully created by chosing to participate in the one action that would create that baby needs to be respected. You don't just get to kill it because the fed says so. The morality of this action will be decided at a state to state level.

Deal with it.

And if said woman doesn't like the reality that now the baby she purposfully created has to be respected and can't just be flushed down a toilet such that she takes a rusty coat hanger and shoves it up her ass...so be it.

 

Women aren't people?

Seems the Anti-Choicers want to destroy the power women have over their own bodies...

 

Babies arn't people? Every single damn logic to try and nulify their existence because they are inconvienant is terrible and full of contradiction and holes.

Don't willfully create babies.

Outside of that the government forces us to do lots of stuff with our bodies. If they draft us, we have to go to war. Most recently we've been preasured heavily to wear masks...inject a vaccine into our bodies. Bodily autonomy isn't an absolute right.

 

LOL, yes " baboes" are people...ZEFs are not.

If one creates a baby they haven't had an abortion...

The government does NOT force us to use our body parts to sustain the life of another....but it's trying to force women to use their body to sustain the life of another ...and NO, you still don't know what bodily autonomy means..

 

I've already punched all the holes in the ZEF label you are trying to pass off as a means to undermine the value of what you've created at conception.

If you don't have anything new to add or another angle to spin...I grow tired of your nonsensicle arguments

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
LOL, yes " baboes" are people...ZEFs are not.





If one creates a baby they haven't had an abortion...




The government does NOT force us to use our body parts to sustain the life of another....but it's trying to force women to use their body to sustain the life of another ...and NO, you still don't know what bodily autonomy means..

Nope, no proof of that anywhere...

OK, so you are unable to address my posts ...

 

I don't need to address your idiotic claim that a zef isnt a new human life unique to the mother. I'd be rehashing this as I've already dealt with the argument. You can scroll up if you want. But to sum it up, the ZEFdevelopment stage containst the DNA INFORMATION that guides the construction of the person. That INFORMATION is the person. So yes...the difference between a fetus at ZEF stage and a cancer cell at ZEF stage are fundamentally different. They are worlds apart.

Heck...I don't even know why anyone even brings up this ZEF label since clearly no abortions happen at that stage of development anyways. But...that's the straws ya gotta grasp I guess?

 

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Which I never claimed....sad you have to make up what others have posted just to have an argument

One has to be born to be a legal person.......embryos are aborted...and so , at times, are fetuses.

And even if it was a "person" it still has no right to use another's body to sustain it's life....nor can it harm another without their consent...

 

Indeed we do live in an America that no longer has respect for Essential Liberty - neither our people nor our institutions - thanks to people like you who are thankful for tyranny .. in all its raging glory.

Your belief system is hypocrisy -- and that never ends well - you claim "I believe in freedom" but, only for things you agree with .. not understanding that belief in freedom "of speech" for example .. is not belief in freedom for speech you agree with - everyone believes in that - But, belief in freedom for speech you disagree with.

You cry in defense of this plague "Deal with it" - having no understanding that when they knock on your door ... for not taking the jab or something else you disagree with .. ... tis you who will have to "Deal with it"

12 years of school and we manage not to teach the founding principles .. basics of philosophy .. logic, logical fallacy, critical thinking - what constitutes a valid argument .. so you .. along with the vast majority .. have no idea what voting is about .. making law .. no idea what the question of a referendum is

such that .. if we had a referendum on banning alcohol .. Yes - Ban it , No - We want Booze

and someone does not like alcohol for religious or personal reasons .. is this a valid reason to vote Yes - Ban it

 

You are aware that what you are arguing holds no value, ya? We do not feel comfortable with late term abortions...pretty much annonymous at this point. So "legal person" label holds no water.

Like I said...you have nothing new to bring to the table. Everything you have claimed is full of holes, inconsequential or ridiculous.

You are going to have to learn how to be a bit more responsible with your actions in this brave new world where you can't shelter behind roe vs wade. Scary, I know.

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
.

Which I never claimed....sad you have to make up what others have posted just to have an argument




One has to be born to be a legal person.......embryos are aborted...and so , at times, are fetuses.

And even if it was a "person" it still has no right to use another's body to sustain it's life....nor can it harm another without their consent..

LOL, couldn't address that could you

 

And yet now it does. And it will be something you will now have to consider moving forward as determined by whichever state you live in.

 

Legalized abortion gives power to the people.

 

But your fine if you get to kill it because the state says so.

 

I'm not fine with it. However I'm not fine with Biden in office. But...that's what the people voted in so that's where we are at.

 

No loss is permanent. And you people ignore the obvious about this vote.

 

JUDGE REINSTATES NORTH CAROLINA’S 20 WEEK ABORTION LAW.

That's a perfectly reasonable standard. Only 7 or so nations in the entire world have a more permissive standard than 20 weeks.

 

Yeah, I'm aware. You and I have seen eye-to-eye on almost every issue here over the years, but this is one where we will probably not. I consider a pregnant woman as one individual, until the moment they are separated, and I therefore see the pregnant woman's right to her bodily autonomy as the overriding factor in this issue. While every abortion is horrible, and in my utopia, there would never be another one, blanket federal prohibitions are not the right way, or the best way, to approach that utopia.

All that said, we can probably agree that the overturning of RvW was the correct decision, ending 50 years of federal overreach and giving the decision back to the People.

Based upon my own anecdotal research, the People overwhelmingly support legal abortion options. If this is true, then the People will force their representatives to either re-instate lawful abortion clinics, or they will elect new representatives that will. Republicans would do well to take note of this, because if they continue to dig in their heels against the public will, they will hand victories to democrats over this issue, and that would be a bad thing, on par.... because... well.... democrats.

 

Good points. From what I've seen most are against 3rd tri abortions outside of basic self-defense needs of the mother, most are for full freedom in the first tri. So somewhere in the mid tri is where the solution that appeals to the most people likely resides, and that line likely varies a bit from State to State.

 

Oh, no!
Religious freedom that doesn't start with a capital "C"hristo-fascist.


'Judge blocks Indiana abortion ban on religious freedom grounds'

Reuters) - A second Indiana judge on Friday blocked the state from enforcing its law banning most abortions after Jewish, Muslim and other non-Christian women challenged it in a lawsuit.

Marion County Superior Court Judge Heather Welch issued a preliminary injunction against the Republican-backed law, which prohibits abortions with limited exceptions for rape, incest, lethal fetal abnormalities or a serious health risk to the mother. The plaintiffs have argued that the measure infringes on religious freedom protected by another state law.

The law had already been on hold, as another judge in September blocked Indiana from enforcing it while Planned Parenthood and other healthcare providers challenge it in court.

Indiana became the first state to pass a new law banning abortion after the U.S. Supreme Court in June overturned its landmark 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling that had legalized the procedure nationwide. Other Republican-led states quickly began enforcing older bans.

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-blocks-indiana-abortion-ban-015531930.html
5

 

Ordinarily I would agree, because, as written, the 10th-Amendment should be the governing factor in all such matters -- but this one is different. Why?

From a 'human rights' perspective which envelops the entire United States collectively, a woman's body belongs to her and her ALONE. If at any point prior to live-birth she wants to kill the 'growth' inside HER body and have it removed, it must be her decision to make... period. I say that, even though I'm a rock-solid fiscal Conservative who adheres to every word in the Constitution.

From a practical political perspective, it is political DEATH to fight a woman's right to abortion at this point! The disastrous midterm elections this year provide ample proof that, using the removal of 'Roe v Wade' as their leverage, hyperliberal Democrats were able to turn what should have been clean Conservative (or Republican) sweeps of Congress into only minor inconveniences.

Think: Democrats will still control the Senate, and Geriatric Joe will still be stumbling around the Oval Office, doing whatever his handlers tell him to do. Republicans will have a threadbare majority in the House, but they won't be able to really get anything beneficial done, and they'll never be able to override any vetoes that Biden will be throwing around every chance he gets.

The sad fact that we've had to live with ever since the Civil War is that Abraham Lincoln forever crippled and essentially mangled the 10th-Amendment for all time, and since then, the 'almighty-god' centralized, federal government rules over everything and everyone.

P. S. You, @Zorro , are a predictably intelligent, knowledgeable source of information on the economy, especially. There are some threads open now that badly need your insight and perspicacity.

 

[QUOTE="Patricio Da Silva, post: 1073632473, member: 86272"Voters in Kansas decide to keep abortion legal in the state, rejecting an amendment[/QUOTE]This is very unimpressive. Ballyhooing a big ho hum. Many, and maybe most, Republicans are not in favor of outlawing every and all abortions at any time for any reason.

 

The difference in our views is most assuredly because you do not view the baby as a seperate life, I guess, until it draws breathe into its lungs?

We won by over 3 million votes and took a narrow House majority. I'm more interested in protecting the most vulnerable than I am picking up a few more seats. I saw more than one pro-life governor win easily in in the same states where House and Senate candidates struggled, so, it's not clear to me that abortion was that big of a deal beyond the margins.

We've elected a LOT of Republicans over the last 30 years and many of the things that I expected them to change have gotten much much worse. Take Liz Cheney as a horrible example. She was worth something like $7M in 2018 and after just 4 years in the House she's worth over $50M. I do not think we can find and elect enough people to make the difference that I want to see, when going along with the existing system can be easily made to pay that handsomely. I think that broader long-term solution will come from the State Legislatures acting in concert. Dobbs dealt with Separation of Powers, and was an initial tiny step toward restoring the constitutional powers of our Free Legislatures to a Free People.

IMO, one of the key checks to Federal Power is that it cannot do what we refuse to fund. With the Fed's unlimited money creation and their unchecked debt assumption, the Federal Government has essentially become self-funding and so escaped our grasp for the time being. It took multiple steps and multiple decades to come to the position we are in, and it may take the same to bring it back under control.

The most important thing that I think that each of us can do is vote all way through our ballot, all the way down through the local school board elections, set a side 3 hours or so to drop each candidate into a search bar and get to know them. I began this practice after I watched a few city councils order city police departments to abandon residential neighborhoods to lawless protestors. I had no idea that local fools could have so much power. In my last county supervisor election I traded emails with the candidates until I found one that clearly would never dream of adopting such a felon-friendly approach. Same thing with the local prosecutor.

The next thing that I determined to do is stop evading jury duty. I've learned the excuses, and my work is demanding, that will get me out of jury duty, but, I think these juries need our voice, opinion and outlook, so, I purposed to no longer do that.

I also regularly write my local House representative, but, need to be better about corresponding with my State Rep's.

I don't think that more House seats would have changed things much, one more seat in the Senate would have been really important though.

Well, we've lost ground in some areas, gained ground amazingly in others. Consider concealed carry, and in general the Federal Government was completely against it's expansion: Here is the situation 30 years ago:



Here is the situation today:



Here is another area of long term political progress. A half century ago, Democrats had such a lock on Congress that they rather routinely overrode GOP presidential vetoes. With a more balanced representation in congress between the parties, veto overrides have become rather rare.

The key to restoring prosperity is the ability of We The People to access our nation's energy resources and the freedom to produce the goods and services that each of us want. We need the liberty to more freely exchange our labor for pay and less restrictions on our ability to produce the goods and services that our fellow Americans desire. A much smaller group is currently strangling and restricting our ability to do so with a massive array of binding threads they have been laying in place for a half century. We have the strength to break every illegitimate thread of restriction, it's just that there's a lot of them, and we have to work together more than we have been.

I'm confident that in time we'll figure it out and accomplish it, but, we have to be persuasive. I think that the Liberals are far more fooled by the authoritarian progressives than they are onboard with them. And as the madness of the authoritarians becomes more undeniable that it will separate them from their base of power.

Always a pleasure, Zorro

As this continues, more and more of us will figure it out.

 

This is very unimpressive. Ballyhooing a big ho hum. Many, and maybe most, Republicans are not in favor of outlawing every and all abortions at any time for any reason.[/QUOTE]

Some are, some aren't.

Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama, Missouri, Kentucky, South Dakota all ban abortions with no exception for rape or incest.

Although abortion in Kentucky is illegal from fertilization, as of August 1, 2022 the order blocking enforcement of the state's trigger-law ban has been blocked itself.