Henry Kissinger: Ukraine Should Give Up Territory to Russia to Reach Peace

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lil Mike, May 25, 2022.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    It's very curious that you would throw China in this conversation because

    a. China has nothing to do with this thread

    b. You have been on record supporting China against the US on tariffs.

    Have you had a change of heart or what?
     
  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    China is a very serious problem. Government doesn't say it is because many of the politicians are in bed with the CCP. China would like to put us out of business without firing a shot but they will certainly fire some shots if we resist. And, at some point, we will resist. Like you I think their equipment probably works just fine.
     
  3. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    That's not true. Look up Peter Zeihan and listen to what he has to say about China, it's very enlightening.
     
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    My opinion differs from yours and his. It is what it is. Don't use the term true when we are talking about opinions.
     
  5. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion is wrong. 8) :bye:
     
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It can't be wrong. It is an opinion, not a statement of fact. You don't have facts either. We are pondering the future. Get over it.
     
  7. Noone

    Noone Well-Known Member

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    your opinion is wrong.
     
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Kissinger is a bigger crook than Slippery Joe, but he's right about this one. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
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  9. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As expected.........

    Zelensky rips Kissinger over suggestion Ukraine cede territory to Russia

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Wednesday slammed former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger for suggesting earlier this week that Ukraine cede some territory to Russia in the name of peace.

    In a Wednesday address, Zelensky said Kissinger “emerges from the deep past and says that a piece of Ukraine should be given to Russia” and that Kissinger’s “calendar is not 2022, but 1938” — a reference to the Munich Agreement, which allowed for Nazi Germany to annex land in western Czechoslovakia.

    https://thehill.com/news/3502032-ze...-suggestion-ukraine-cede-territory-to-russia/
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well guess who agrees now with Henry Kissinger?

    This guy!

    [​IMG]

    Remarks by President Biden on the May Jobs Report


    Q Mr. President, does Ukraine have to cede territory to achieve some peace?

    THE PRESIDENT: You know, you’ve been always fair with me. The — from the beginning, I’ve said and I’ve been — not everyone has agreed with me — nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine. It’s their territory. I’m not going to tell them what they should and shouldn’t do.

    But it appears to me that, at some point along the line, there’s going to have to be a negotiated settlement here. And what that entails, I don’t know. I don’t think anybody knows at the time.

    But in the meantime, we’re going to continue to put the — the Ukrainians in a position where they can defend themselves.
     
  11. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing to me that Kissinger is what, 99 years old, and is still as sharp as a tack? He has more about our current chaotic foreign policy.

    Henry Kissinger Is Worried About ‘Disequilibrium’

    Kissinger speaking about our relationships with Russia and China:

    "“In my thinking, equilibrium has two components,” he tells me. “A kind of balance of power, with an acceptance of the legitimacy of sometimes opposing values. Because if you believe that the final outcome of your effort has to be the imposition of your values, then I think equilibrium is not possible. So one level is a sort of absolute equilibrium.” The other level, he says, is “equilibrium of conduct, meaning there are limitations to the exercise of your own capabilities and power in relation to what is needed for the overall equilibrium.” Achieving this combination takes “an almost artistic skill,” he says. “It’s not very often that statesmen have aimed at it deliberately, because power had so many possibilities of being expanded without being disastrous that countries never felt that full obligation.” "

    " “We are at the edge of war with Russia and China on issues which we partly created, without any concept of how this is going to end or what it’s supposed to lead to,” "
     
  13. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That’s incredibly myopic. If we had not fought hitler, we would have had to face a nazi empire with the only nukes in the world. Imagine the world today.
    But I do agree that Russia is just a third world country with nukes while China is the next world superpower.
    But they are both serious challenges.
     
  14. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Nice guesswork but I didn't get to me. Sorry.
     
  15. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is very simple, part of Ukraine is Russian speaking and wants a connection with Russia, following Pres. Putin's suggestion of forming an autonomous republic trading with Russia, and part is Ukrainian speaking which is a distinct dialect of Russian but could be classed as a separate language, which appears to prefer attachment to the EU or Poland, and both should be autonomous republics and both should be demilitarized with no NATO or other missiles.

    But how are the US weapons makers - aka defense industries; going to make money if there isn't a war?
     
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  16. clg311

    clg311 Well-Known Member

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    A certified war criminal is saner than bloodthirsty Biden, the media, democrats and most republicans in congress.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
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  17. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    If you have read much of Kissinger, and I've read everything he has written, he dates modern Statesmanship to the Westphalia Treaties that brought a close to the constant wars that swept Europe. This mostly kept the peace for most of a century through balance of power. Rule number one was everyone else stay out of things within the border of another country. Rule number two was whenever a nation tried to expand their borders through a war of aggression all the other Europeans allied against them. This kept the peace until the German States unified into a single nation, sharply reducing the number of States and taking the slack out of the system. Hitler made a deal with Stalin and then launched his war of aggression.

    Coming into the current situation, Kissinger and Nixon reached out to China and Russia, improved our relations with both, with the strategic goal of working to keep them from joining forces against us.

    Here are global power rankings:

    https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php

    Kissinger's main point is that we are simultaneously engaging in conflicts with the 2nd and 3rd strongest powers, both of which are nuclear powers with the missile technology to deliver them to the US. That capability cannot be ignored.

    Pakistan, also is a nuclear power and the Taliban, with their resumption as a nation state and the infusing of US arms is putting pressure on Pakistan like never before. Imagine waking up and finding that the government of Pakistan had fallen and that a Taliban friendly group had assumed power, making the Taliban not only the best armed terrorist group in the nation, but also a nuclear power. You can damn well figure that the Taliban has thought of this.

    Turkey is another one that we seem to be in a lot of conflict with.

    I think that Kissinger's concern, is it's a valid one, is that if there is a coherent overall strategy to US Statesmanship, he can't discern what it is. It looks reactive, confused, flat-footed and not particularly intelligent. That's not good. Nation's can get stupid and if the central government has enough power, they can force the entire nation onto a stupid path.

    As far as I can tell, 99 year old Kissinger's thinking is as clear as ever.

    This looks like his latest book. Released last month.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Your comments were right on the mark!
     
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  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interesting questions .. and OP .. either way.

    "Unstable Europe" - and the West Sphere of influence in General .. US hegemony taking a beating - most obviously from economic perspective but also from Military perspective .. something that is not so obvious .. until you consider that these technologies render our ability to project power just as difficult as Russia .. our brave Carrier Fleets Obsolete sitting ducks in the face of modern missile technology .. and we have known this for decades .. just no one has been showing what this stuff is capable of..

    "Land for Peace" -- forgive me for noticing the irony of Kissinger saying this :) There seems little question that Russia will retain some land . in addition to Crimea Along the Black Sea .. the question is how much .. If you let the war go on long enough Russia may take occupy more of Ukraine .. . cutting a deal now may leave Ukraine will access to the black Sea .. Odessa which Russia has not yet occupied.

    and be done with it .. start the rebuilding .. hopefully the west will help fund..
     
  20. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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