FBI seizes privileged Trump records during raid; DOJ opposes request for independent review: sources

Fair enough. Can I assume that you include POTUS in the category of government agencies? That, if they become rogue in politicization, is also a grave threat?

 

Actually our legal system does require the burden of proof lies with the government. You know… the beyond a reasonable doubt thing

 

So WHAT?
It still doesn't require anyone to "prove a negative"...

 

Another Oopsy! moment for the DOJ/FBI.

 

More accurately, the burden of proof lies with the plaintiff , whoever that may be.

 

Of course. No one should not be held accountable, but when a Intel agency is obviously showing favoritism they especially should be scrutinized and their actions questioned. Trust is earned, not merely deserved because of title.

 

Too bad that Trump never learned that lesson...

 

It’s in the inventory

 

Yup.

Why did he take and hide classified documents? What was the Orange Tool going to do with the documents?

 

How were they showing favoritism? It looks like 1.5 years is indulgent and the Orange Buttcrack lied and hid the remaining documents that never belonged to him.

 

For starters, the FBI agents do not have the time and inclination to look at every document in there. That would be done later. If there are attorney-client documents in the boxes mixed in with say classified documents in the same box. then that would be piss poor records management on Trump's part, would it not? And those attorney-client privilege documents cannot be used in a court of law. Second, anything that is "executive privilege" has to be done before Trump leaves office, not after. And again, there is a process for that.

The simple fact is that Trump got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. So far you and other Trump loyalists have tried to blame the cat, dog, mouse, and every other animal, have tried to say the cookie jar was never there, have tried to say it is his cookie jar, and so forth. None of these is going to work.

 

Are you asking as a defense or prosecutor lawyer?

 

I completely agree. And we will have to wait to see if Garland acted in a partisan way. The FBI were following his direction.

 

Fair enough, but don't you think their track record should be considered when discussing their actions?

 

And that will be satisfied by demonstrating that the documents were classified. If the accused wants to raise a defense on the basis that the documents were subsequently declassified, the burden of proving that will be with the defendant.

 

For automatic documents yes. However, no documents with the TSSCI were involved. These are excepted documents and the secrets contained therein must still be addressed by the issuing agency once the declassification starts. There is a process, an exact process per EO 13526 that must be done. The secrets in those document must be addressed by the issuing agency and blocked out before that document can be given over to the public. However, whether they were declassified or not, they still belonged to the NARA and not Trump. He violated the Presidential Records Act. So the question is also whether he violated other laws. The whole argument Trump is putting out there has more to do with a possible legal defense than anything else.

No that is false. The moment the President leaves office is the moment all those records belong to the NARA. Again the Presidential Records Act makes that clear and every president before Trump has complied with that law. Again, this is the classic argument of, "But Billy did it too Mrs. Jenkins. So why he isn't in trouble?" This type of argument left when you went from 5th grade to 6th and it still does not work in school or your parents or anywhere else

Or wait three minutes and Trump will find another excuse. Maybe this time it would be, "God told me to violate the law and anointed me as its next king on earth." Just a thought.[/QUOTE]

 

Yes, in Never Never Landia....

 

You don't even know there was classified Intel in the house. In fact, there's no mention of any intel being discovered. Is that the new lie being spread?...lol

 

In this case, they were following orders. Its all on Garland. There was no rogue faction. In fact, it was led by DNI.

 

Let's understand something. I'm not criticizing the rank and file. They are just following orders. On that we can agree.

 

Okay, so if we're talking about this case - are you concerned about the judge and Garland? This thread is about the raid and you are concerned about the FBI. But this wasn't an 'FBI' raid - it was a DOJ raid utilizing the FBI as footmen.

 

The FBI falls under the umbrella of the DOJ. I'm concerned with the superiors authorizing the raid, not the footsoldiers.

 

Your first post said that you were more concerned with "A rogue politicized Intel agency" than the improper handling of sensitive documents. I assume you meant the FBI. So which superiors, do you think, had dirty hands with this raid? Garland has already accepted full responsibility, so what part of the FBI was rogue in this case? What actions, do you think, were politicized?

 

*sigh* not playing this boring game with you.

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. I've been reading and hearing all about 'rogue agents' and illegal search and seizures since the raid. Documents were planted by the FBI. I'm just trying to understand the proof behind those assertions and the reason this is being said.