I don't know where you got that idea, but talking about late term abortions and generalizing to all abortions is what's misleading, because the vast majority aren't. As to whether somebody supports late term abortions, it's mostly down to their rationale for being pro-choice. In reality, "choice" vs "life" misses the entire crux of the issue. Two major ways to arrive at a pro-choice position include believing the fetus isn't a person until a certain level of development. To me the logical point here is when a mind is possible, so that would be around 20 or 21 weeks to be safe. This line of reasoning would not support late term abortion, except in particular cases such as that the fetus is not viable anyway due to a defect, or the life of the mother. But there is also the argument that the mother has the right to control her body and can't be forced to put her body in jeopardy for any other person. It's sort of analogous to trying to force an identical twin to donate their kidney to save their brother. Maybe people think they should, but it's their right to decide whether to donate it or not. Same reasoning would suggest a pregnant woman could abort at any time, for any reason, because she is in control of her body. And then there are plenty of other possible lines of reasoning, but the ones I mentioned are the more logical ones I am aware of.
The idea of mandates is certainly less compelling now given omicron is less lethal. But the only reason it was on the table was because people's refusal was putting the lives of others at risk. It's not about autonomy, it's about being irresponsible like a drunk driver. If you can't drive sober, stay off of public roads. If you can't take steps to protect other people from a potentially deadly infectious disease, stay away from other people. It's the same with school vaccination. If you can't get basic vaccines to keep your classmates and yourself safe from deadly diseases, then I guess it's time for home school. It is sad that these poor fools were deluded by conservative hacks and quacks, and other anti-science/medicine people.
Are you saying pro-choice means supporting people's right to choose, but only when they make the right choice? If so... do you, perhaps, own anything that you bought but don't need, that you could've instead bought food for someone who has since starved to death? 36 million people died from starvation in the last year.
I'm saying "pro-choice" isn't applicable to actions that harm others. Failing to help isn't the same as harming. Going out into public without taking measures against a deadly disease going around is harming others in the same way as being a drunk driver on a public road where others drive. Perhaps the main mitigating difference is there isn't a group of idiots telling drunk drivers it's okay to drive drunk, unlike with vaccination.
Thats not an argument for vaccination. That could be an argument for mandatory covid testing and criminalizing public exposure by those that test positive, but thats not what we're talking about because pretty much everyone was willing to get tested when requested and willing to stay home when positive. Thats 'taking measures against a deadly disease.' But that wasn't an acceptable alternative to vaccination according to the mandates. In fact the same folks who came up with the mandates exempted the vaccinated from testing even though it was known that the vaccinated could still spread covid. Thats not in the interest of 'taking measures against a deadly disease going around is harming others'.
I didn't read the link either, but is a "late term" abortion any different than an abortion at 10 weeks?
Uh yes I had. When I said I don't know where you get that idea, it's the idea that nobody wants late-term abortions. Some do. I think the issue is the whole thread seems like a strawman since it has little to do with support for "regular" abortions. It's not controversial that a minority of people support late term abortions, but most people don't, even on the pro-choice side. And most abortions have nothing to do with late-term. And those that do are usually extreme cases like malformations incompatible with life or extra risk to the life of the mother. In the post you quoted, I talked about why some people who call themselves pro-choice may be against late-term abortions, and why others would not, i.e. two different lines of reasoning that may help you understand what you thought was a contradiction of some kind.
Why do you want the government to be in our bedrooms and keep public records of what happens in there? Kind of creepy, to be honest.
“Regular abortions” are just as horrific as late term abortions are. The deceptionnis in pretending one is a homicide and the other is not.
It seems kind of crazy to me you would equate killing a being who can suffer and has a mind with killing a tadpole-shaped mindless thing. They seem very different from the perspective of morality being based on harm to others. And "others" being things that have minds and can suffer. I find it hard to imagine where you draw your conclusion from. I guess I know of a few (illogical) possibilities.
I think he has an immature sense of ethics. It is either black or white. An abortion whether the fetus is viable or not is the same, it is all "homicide", well actually feticide, but like that fact and others they are all lost to his simplistic sense of ethics. Reasoned argument is useless against the lack of capacity to reason.
I think you have an inflated sense of your own intellect. My view is not simplistic. I have said repeatedly reasonable exceptions should be made. Your implication that my view is simplistic is just a dodge to try to avoid the fact that you are projecting. Abortion as birth control should not be legal. Abortion when the mother’s life is in eminent danger should be a choice that is allowed. Although two wrongs do not make a right, I understand the sentiment that abortion should be allowed in cases of rape. A human fetus is a human being. A homicide is the killing of one human being by one or more others. So given these facts, feticide is homicide.
Well that argument fails with the COVID19 vaccine, since it fails to prevent contracting or spreading the virus! Yet the left ran full speed ahead trying to guilt people into having this poison injected into their bodies! Why?
Following the experts' advice. You are not correct about the vaccine. The vaccines were developed against an earlier strain and, while not as effective as say a measles vaccine, it reduces both transmission and severity of disease even in the omicron strain which it wasn't developed for. COVID vaccines slash risk of spreading Omicron — and so does previous infection (nature.com) And calling it poison is laughable misinformation.
Yeah, let’s talk about “homicide”. Not all homicides are a bad thing, some may, on balance. be a good thing. Turning off the ventilator of a brain dead accident victim. Killing bin Laden was seen as a good thing. You would choose the life of the woman over the fetus. That would be a good “homicide”. That says you think the woman has more of a right to life than the fetus. So the worth of a life can be judged in your opinion. Where the disagreement is you seize judging worth at the word fetus. A week old fetus does not have the same right to life as an eight month old fetus. That is what I am referring to as your simplistic opinion. Women have a right to judge what they will allow happen to their bodies. If supporting a new life prior to viability is judged too much of a burden her rights supersede the fetus’. The fetus’ right to life grows as it does never surpassing the woman’s until birth.
Abortion is not homicide. This is indisputable fact. I am so glad I live in a FREE country and not one that oppresses women.
You are horrifically misinformed. Numerous studies have shown that COVID19 vaccines actually harm your immune system and there is growing evidence that the newly created Sudden Adult Death Syndrome is caused by these poorly tested and vetted vaccines. You can continue to pretend otherwise if you want, but it will become undeniable!!!
Abortion is obviously a homicide! No reasonable argument to the contrary!!!! I am thinking you don’t even know what the definition of homicide is.
Read, learn, then post! I am under no obligation to grant someone’s attempt to misdirect and divert the discussion.
There it is! The phantom mother who also lives next to the welfare queen. I guess it would be too much to ask if you actually know any women -- and no, your mother doesn't count.
