Americans have lost $4,200 in income under Biden, wiping out Trump gains: Heritage

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by sec, Sep 23, 2022.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    True - but, there are factors that cause this to be a short term problem. Oil price is set by the commodities market that is world wide. That market raises prices when there is disruption or predicted reduction in supply, such as because of the war in Ukraine and the pandemic.

    Those issues are not permanent.
    YOU are not answering the question.

    I asked what it is that you want the US president to do about the price of gas.

    If you can't come up with anything, then you're whole political angle is just whining about the existence of a problem - a real problem, but one that you can not blame on the president of this country or any other country.
     
  2. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    31,698
    Likes Received:
    7,781
    Trophy Points:
    113

    sign an EO opening all area to drilling, Cutting the red tape purposely delaying permits. Instead, streamline it
     
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is no indication that you idea will change the world oil supply by enough to cause prices to drop - absolutely NOT in the time frame of the current spike in prices.

    Besides, the spike today is based at least as much on the instability as opposed to volume.

    Also, there are TONS of places where oil companies have full permission to pump oil and tap into natural gas. Companies who do that are managing their businesses for the long term, and they are not going to make massive investments today when there is every reason to believe that oil price will come down again.

    It's been a SHORT number of years since oil companies were going out of business for this very reason. Price of oil went so low that any investment in pumping more oil was a financial disaster.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2022
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,782
    Likes Received:
    39,157
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Isn't that the income distribution and equity the left wants? What demographic nationwide receives disproportionately more federal money in the form of such payments? Blacks. Which demographic is so disproportionately represented in Mississippi? Blacks.

    Of course they are going to receive more of the money the federal government hands out.
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,782
    Likes Received:
    39,157
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And the COVID global pandemic never happened.
     
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,782
    Likes Received:
    39,157
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They are not making massive investments because of our current President and his and his party's goal of shutting down their industry. We are lossing refining capacity and nothing is coming along to replace it.

    Read my SIG. The rise today was predicted months ago as supplies, volume, dwindles to demand.
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,782
    Likes Received:
    39,157
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have yet to figure out the mentality that it would have been best to have a short term price cut which would have crippled our domestic production so that then the ME producers could sky rocket the price and cut supplies to us. :confusion:
     
  8. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,851
    Likes Received:
    51,604
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You just answered the question, the solution is increased supply.
    I love the way that too many on the Left think that the "solution" to a very real problem is trying to coerce a Free People into shutting up about it. I wonder if they can see which fingers are sticking up, because we ain't shutting up. But thanks for again making it clear that the Left has no real world answers other than "stop talking about it."

    How badly out of touch are the privileged Gentry Authoritarian Progressive Puritan Semi-Fascists with the working and middle class voters who are trying to cover 12 months of bills with only 11 months of paychecks in the Biden Dem Dystopian Nightmare?

    WE’VE DESCENDED INTO SOME SORT OF BIZARRE HELL-WORLD IN WHICH AL SHARPTON IS A VOICE OF SANITY: Al Sharpton Says Democrats Aren’t In Touch With Black And Latino Voters.

    [​IMG]
    Al 'NotSo' Sharpton has timely message for Dumb and Dumber

    'You have people of color breaking away from the Democrat Party'.

    '40% of voters view inflation and other economic issues as their main priority for politicians to address. 42% of voters trust Republicans to handle these issues while just 34% trust Democrats.'
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are two main problems with your idea here.

    First, there are LARGE numbers of drilling permits let to oil companies, and they are not investing in those opportunities. Again, you are totally ignoring that corporations can NOT just invest in wells without serious examination of oil markets today and into the future. If they blow it, they go out of business, as they did during the Trump presidency.

    Second, there is no possibility of going from zip to quantities of new oil significant enough to change the world market for oil.

    As a bonus, commodities markets are not just sensitive to total world production. They are also concerned with risks such as have come from the Russian war against Ukraine and the resultant disruptions of flow.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Again, there is no possibility that oil companies in the US are going to change the world supply of oil to any degree that will make a noticeable difference in the price of gas. First, that is just way too much oil. Second, oil companies aren't stupid - they know that another period such as existed during the Trump administration on a short number of years ago could drive them to bankruptcy unless they are circumspect about how much they invest in new oil.

    Oil production is guided by capitalism and prices are set by the world commodities markets in fossil fuel.
    Economists point out that inflation has to do with COVID, which is causing disruption here and world wide - with us depending on world markets in a BIG way.

    And, they point out that a component of that is the price of gas and oil, which is controled by commodities markets as stated above.

    Sharpton has his own issues, but here the issue is inflation.


    If you have an idea for what the president to do about inflation, you need to identify what it is.
     
  11. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,851
    Likes Received:
    51,604
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We've told you repeatedly that the solution to inflation is increased supply. The Left doesn't want that solution because they want a world where the Privileged Gentry have plenty and everyone else lives lives of austerity with the privileged Gentry doling out just enough to keep them in want, in exchange for their political support for the Connected Gentry Left.

    Well, you know what? You'll hear from the voters in 35 days, We are a FREE PEOPLE and these are OUR resources, they are not yours dole out in a miserly fashion in exchange for political support and enthusiastic chanting of your political narrative.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2022
  12. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    10,430
    Likes Received:
    9,600
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    1 lease sale would've helped, cutting permitting regulation would speed up and help. The bottom line is ole Joe sent a signal to a commodity market that is based on future sales, that we aren't selling leases, which mean a lot less permitting. Most every dem is now talking about a comprehensive energy plan. Even they know they've screwed the pooch with all the green only talk while people are struggling to pay utilities and fill the tank for work. The bottom-line inflation has gotten so high for the last two years that pricing has taken hold, and we have new norm. The one thing Biden can help reduce is energy. If he announced tomorrow a major federal land lease sale and offshore sale, with permitting regulation reduction, the market would immediately respond, and supply would increase worldwide, we could be pumping in a year. He could help reduce regulations on gas plants.
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OK, let's go over the issues involved in creating lower gas prices - the "how to" of increasing supply.

    Since "supply" means global supply, you have to make a significant difference in the total world production of oil.

    Since this is undoubtedly a temporary situation, the only meaningful supply would be that which oil companies choose to immediately create. Drilling for oil is NOT a way to create gigantic amounts of oil in a matter of months. Plus, it requires major financial investment.

    Since the oil world is capitalist, the president can not decide that. Corporations do. And, oil companies already have LARGE numbers of drilling permits that they are not using, because of their analysis of the economic environment and what it means for them maximizing profits.

    Since we very recently had a GLUT of oil, the idea that oil companies are going to invest huge sums in order to move to creating huge new supplies of oil is just nonsense. They are not that stupid.

    Since gas includes supplies of components besides oil, it turns out that manufacturing gas has limits related to the supply of those components, which turns out to be problematic in our world COVID economic environment. Plus, they too have capitalist concerns, as increasing production capacity costs a LOT OF MONEY.


    You need to think this through. So far, you are failing to come up with moves that Biden could possible take. Thus, blaming him (or anyone else) for this problem can not be supported by REALITY.

    I DO realize that you can sell many in the US on your ideas that are absolutely FALSE.

    But, I would encourage you not to do that. We're a better country when the public is told the truth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2022
  14. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,851
    Likes Received:
    51,604
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We've told you the truth.
    You can't handle the truth.
    We'll send our message with our vote.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2022
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are already LARGE numbers of permits owned by oil companies for off shore as well as on shore drilling.

    Remember that commodities markets DO NOT listen to the US president. Not even our local US commodities markets listen to the president like you suggest. That was true for Trump and it is true for Biden.

    Remember that there was an oil glut that happened during the Trump term, NOT due to anything he caused. It had to do with world conditions.

    So, Trump was working to RAISE the price of oil by trying to convince the Saudis to not deliver as much oil as they do.

    During that period, oil was so cheap that it cost more to STORE it than to buy it!!! The result was that oil companies here in the US were going out of business. They couldn't cover their payments on loans they took out in order to drill/pump.

    Oil companies don't forget that kind of thing.

    They are going to invest in more oil in a way that will allow them to live through periods of low and periods of high oil price.

    These analyses are done by CORPORATIONS - NOT BY TRUMP and NOT BY BIDEN.


    And, there are similar issues with the corporate decisions made by those who create gas from oil. Oil is only one component needed to make gasoline. And, there are various shortages and corporate decisions related to making and delivering gas.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You haven't answered EVEN ONE of the issues I pointed out!!

    In other words, you've got zip.

    But, I agree that you can work to mislead America based on false information.
     
  17. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,851
    Likes Received:
    51,604
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fake News, we've answered repeatedly, if you want to fix inflation, work to expand the supply of the goods and services that are increasing in price. You keep pretending that either that's not the answer, or that it's impossible. I'm simply respecting your right to be wrong, if that's your choice.

    As for us, we'll make our voices heard in 35 days. There are solutions, and the folks who currently hold office will not implement them, so, we'll work to elect some folks that will.

    That you have a problem, with that perfectly proper response, is your problem, and no one else's.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2022
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The economic principle of greater supply affecting cost is well known.

    You're idea fails, because Trump and Biden were/are presidents and presidents have no control over short term supply of oil or gas. We are capitalists. We can see the proof of this paragraph in that neither Trump nor Biden have been able to control supply.

    Corporations do that.

    Blaming a president for doing what only corporations can do is just blatantly ridiculous.
     
  19. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    31,698
    Likes Received:
    7,781
    Trophy Points:
    113

    ahh, so keep doing what hurts all of us. I understand your Democrat voting position. God forbid should we do something different and reveal that the Democrat platform hurts people

    Understood, Democrat party over helping folks
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,782
    Likes Received:
    39,157
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There are not large numbers of drilling permits and Biden has cut back on the ones that were being let. Drilling is not refining, we are losing refining. And YES Biden and the Dems are telling the oil and gas industry WE WILL DESTROY YOU and we are seeing the results. Have you seen gas prices this morning. The longer we wait the longer that ZIP will be. READ MY SIG
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,851
    Likes Received:
    51,604
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And yet, supply was plentiful under Trump and not enough to supply the global market under Biden, AFTER they promised to shut down the fossil fuel industry.

    You are essentially admitting that Biden and the Dems have no solutions
    You are also claiming that there are NO SOLUTIONS.

    We don't believe you and we will provide this feedback in 35 days, at the voting booth.

    Where the Left is trying to lead us is to a place where a FREE PEOPLE do not wish to go.

    Thousands of German Stores on Brink of Closure As Energy Prices Skyrocket.

    We, the FREE PEOPLE will restore our self-determination and have a different outcome than has resulted from Europe's shortsighted foolish energy policies.

    [​IMG]

    BUT, what Biden and the Dems have already done, has wiped out a months worth of income for the American People, that is unlikely to be tolerated. And your response of claimed helplessness demonstrates that we need to look to others for solutions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You make these claims.

    BUT, if there was anything to them, you would propose what the president could do that isn't being done.

    What kind of help are you referring to?

    What should the president do to provide that help?

    If you don't have answers to that, then your claims are no more than partisan nonsense.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are 9,000 permits outstanding (not being drilled).

    While some can't be drilled, because people in the neighborhood are suing to prevent that drilling, there are LOTS of permits that absolutely could be drilled today.

    The reason they are not drilled is because companies are managing their businesses. There are limits to how much they can invest in drilling new wells. Remember that during the Trump era the problem was LOW oil price. Companies pumping oil were going out of business in the USA because they couldn't service the loans required for funding the opening of new wells. They couldn't even pay the storage price for oil they had on hand.

    Also, oil is NOT THE ONLY reason gas is expensive:
    [​IMG]

    That's not today's data, as noted in the chart. But, it clearly show that gas price does not track oil price in all circumstances.

    Again, remembering that oil and gas are controlled by free market forces, NOT THE GOVERNMENT.

    So, you need to identify what action you want the government to take.
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,767
    Likes Received:
    16,427
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, I'm saying that neither Trump nor Biden have control of the price of oil.

    In the case of Trump he tried to get price of oil back up by talking to the Saudis, asking them to sell less oil. In the case of Biden, he sold oil from the strategic stockpile in order to increase supply as a method of reducing the price of oil.

    Neither could be expected to work well.

    Plus, the low price of oil during the Trump presidency (which was NOT due to Trump policy) is remembered by oil companies who realize that they may need to weather downturns in the price of oil, thus oil companies are careful about investing in producing more oil.


    I think you are still missing three key facts:
    - oil price is set by the world commodities market.

    - oil companies can not make rapid changes in volume that are so large that they would change the world price of oil. Also, the commodities markets are sensitive to disruption in supply, such as the war in Ukraine, security at the strait of Hormuz, estimates of future supply, etc.

    - gas price is NOT strapped to oil price, as refineries have their own business interests, as shown in the chart above.
     
  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,851
    Likes Received:
    51,604
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I understand that you are claiming that ALL president's are helpless to affect fuel prices. I disagree, and since President Biden and many Dems blamed high prices on President Putin, clearly, they disagree with you too.
    Yes, even Biden, who tries to shake hands with invisible people, understands that increased supply reduces price.
    I miss nothing. I do agree that Biden and the Dems will not provide relief. I'll be voting for folks who are committed to long term solutions to ensure stable prices.

    Biden Begs The Middle East Nation He Called A ‘Pariah’ To Give Us Oil After He Throttled U.S. Energy.

    [​IMG]

    Instead of begging Pariah's we'll ramp up our domestic supply and retake control of our destiny.

    34 days!
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022

Share This Page