The phrase "denying the Holocaust" seems to mean different things to different people. What does it mean to you? Thanks,
HC denial is the politically motivated attempt to fake German history during the Nazi era. Who sees it differently?
Lots of people would and have seen it differently. The most accurate and strict definition of "denying the holocaust" is to maintain that it is all made up; that nothing special happened to the Jews during the WW 2 era. According to the ADL study I have cited (1) there are only very few people who feel that way while most people who know anything about the holocaust agree that it did happen but that it has been grossly exaggerated. That's the way I feel. The Holocaust Industry (i.e. Jewish special interest groups) maintain that it is exclusively Jewish "property" and that only Jewish people are entitled to the over $!00 Billion that has been extorted from Germany. I believe that @MuchAdo feels that way. Others have a more egalitarian view and feel that "the Holocaust®" includes 5 million non Jews (the Roma, Jehovah's Witnesses, Slavs, Communists / Bolsheviks etc). What all people who believe the whole holocaust narrative have in common is an inability to defend what has become a cult mindset in a calm, civil, rational and factual debate. For example, David Irving has repeatedly challenged Deborah Lipstadt or any other fanatical holocaustian to debate but neither Lipstadt nor anyone else will debate him because Irving knows the facts and the facts are on his side.. During the Lipstadt vs Irving defamation "trial", Lipstadt didn't say a word. Her multi million dollar legal army did all the talking while Irving had absolutely no legal assistance. What I have noticed in studying this topic and people like Lipstadt is that people who believe the standard holocaust narrative is they use snarky, unprofessional slander / defamation in attacking the people who do not believe the physically impossible holocaust narrative rather than attempting to explain, for example, why no mass graves have been found at Treblinka or any of the other "death camps". In Lipstadt's books, she only defames people who disagree with her as "pseudo Historians", "pseudo scientists", "Neo Nazis", "anti Semites" etc but never explains how 1,000 people can be stuffed into a 100 square foot "gas chamber" or why there are no human remains where there are supposed to be while the mass graves of the victims of Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin are obvious and there for all to see. As you know, this is known as the ad hominem fallacy and I've seen the same thing at this forum. People who actually believe the standard holocaust narrative evade substantive debate by focusing on me and my alleged motives and using the same tiresome and meaningless insults to describe me and anyone else who does not believe the outrageous and physically impossible standard holocaust narrative. The truth is in the details. For example, there was only enough coal delivered to Auschwitz - Birkenau - Monowitz to cremate about 70,000 people so where are the physical remains of the other one million plus people? The more that you study the WW 2 era with an open and objective mind, the more impossible the holocaust narrative becomes. A primary reason that people become angry and insulting is that they are insecure in being able to defend their beliefs. That's why they evade substantive debate by ad hominem attacks. Can you think of another reason? (1) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS” https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/ EXCERPT “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts. Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth. Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust." - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated. - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED
HC deniers like Irving, Rudolf & Co, indeed aren't historians. They're more like hobbyists trying to distort history. Irving, for example is a strong Hitler fan. He loves this guy.
Your Post just exemplified some of what I wrote earlier which was: "....people who believe the standard holocaust narrative ... use snarky, unprofessional slander / defamation in attacking the people who do not believe the physically impossible holocaust narrative rather than attempting to explain, for example, why no mass graves have been found at Treblinka or any of the other "death camps". After all, if there were any truth to the standard holocaust narrative (shn) then at least one of the cloistered and well paid holocaust experts would accept Irving's invitation to a public debate but because the shn cannot stand up to honest and open debate, they're afraid to and our bias MSM would refuse to present it to Western audiences. David Irving, Germar Rudolf etc have forgotten more about WW 2 and the holocaust than Lipstadt and and similar holocaust hucksters will ever know. That's why her multi million dollar army of lawyers refused to let her say a word. You claim that Irving "loves" Hitler based on what? Does that make the irrefutable facts he presents any less true? In your earlier Post # 3025 you wrote: "Fighting evil with lies will never work" I feel, in a small way, like I'm fighting an evil and criminal Holocaust Industry whose militant Zionist disciples firebomb offices of truth tellers, beat real historians nearly to death, make death threats and persecute anyone they don't like. Even though the only "rebuttals" I've received have been ad hominem attacks and dilettante psychological platitudes about "Holocaust deniers" no one has refuted any fact I've stated. Please show me anywhere I've told a lie in my attempts to expose greedy and profit hungry anti German defamation. Thanks,
Irving wrote a lot about Hitler. He argued that Hitler didn't know of the extermination of Jews, or if he did, he opposed it. These aren't facts, just Irving's (false) interpretation, making him a HC denier. Fact is: Hitler wanted nothing to do with this whole dirty act of extermination of the Jews. He completely delegated this to his subordinate Nazi Heinrich Himmler. Hitler never visited an extermination camp. He couldn't endure cruelty. I wouldn't say you lie consciously, but you believe many lies of professional Holocaust deniers. You think the SHN is anti-German slander, but that's a mistake. We Germans are very happy that we no longer have to live under evil Nazi rule and we're very grateful to you Americans for kicking Hitler's ass.
You're not the first person to ask that question. My guess is that people associate the Jewish people with both the Middle East and the Holocaust but you'd have to ask the guy who started the thread. Jump in if you feel like it. Thanks,
According to an ADL study, (1) about 2/3 of the people around the world who know about the holocaust consider the standard holocaust narrative to be the "unhinged conspiracies". Meanwhile, only about 1/3 of the world's population believes the numerable outrageous stories(2) and staged propaganda films(3), (4) Re: The recently coined term "Holocaust denier" is, itself a deceptive misnomer as only a tiny percent of the world's population "denies" that the Holocaust happened. I, like most of the world, think that it happened but has been grossly exaggerated and crassly exploited by a fraudulent Holocaust Industry. (5), (6) Since I have unanswered questions and am still forming opinions about what really happened during this tragic era I would welcome your participation if you, too would like to have a civil and productive exchange without insults and rancor. It's your choice. Thanks, (1) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS” https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/ EXCERPT “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts. Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth." CONTINUED (2) “Dozens & Dozens of the Most Outrageous Tales of the Holocaust” http://wolfgangrudolf.blogspot.com/2016/12/dozens-dozens-of-most-outrageous-tales.html EXCERPTS: • Moshe Peer's astounding Holy Shoah tale - Gassed six times by the Nazis and survived!! - Claims people were murdered in gas chambers at Bergen-Belsen • William Lowenberg's astounding Holocaust tale - Had a magic thirst-quenching pebble, did not drink water, survived on his saliva for 3 years • Yankel Wiernik's Holotale - Babies torn in half, woman leaps 10 ft barbed-wire fence, guards nail inmates' ears to walls, jews roasted on giant outdoor hibachis • Testimony from the Eichmann Trial by Leon Wells - Dug up and burned bodies, used bone-grinding machine, ate lunch on top of corpses • Irene Zisblatt's incredible Holocaust tale- Ate and retrieved diamonds from feces, had 2 post-sterilization children, weighed 40 lbs when liberated • Rivka Yosselevska's absurd Holocaust fable - Escaped biting jew corpses, witnessed geysers of blood” CONTINUED (3) “The Director of the Holocau$t - Khazar Expatriate Billy Wilder” https://archive.org/details/TheDirectorOfTheHolocaut-KhazarExpatriateBillyWilder EXCERPT “Almost all the films you've ever seen of the Holocaust were staged. Using Allied propaganda as a rough script, directors from Hollywood were shipped to Germany and Poland to direct propaganda films for post-war use. One of the most notable of these was Billy Wilder, director of meny very well known films, such as "Some Like It Hot" with Marilyn Monroe."CONTINUED (4) "The Hollywood Directors Who Filmed the Liberation of Nazi Concentration Camps" https://hyperallergic.com/426644/lamoth-filming-the-camps-the-holocaust/ EXCERPT "George Stevens, John Ford, and Samuel Fuller, best known for their work in Hollywood, all documented the Allied liberation at the end of the war. But during this period of war, they were acting less as artists than as functionaries of US propaganda and information efforts, working for the US Armed Forces and Secret Services.CONTINUED (5) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE" http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED (6)"HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION" http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298 EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED
Re: I have recently cited 2 irrefutable facts that prove the SHN to be false. Throughout this thread, I have cited additional facts that do the same thing but for the sake of simplicity, let's stick to these two: 1. Earlier holocaust myth makers claimed that 2 million people were killed at Treblinka. They have now reduced it to about 850,000 but there is absolutely no hard evidence to support this claim even though thousands of innocent Germans were executed for these "war crimes". By now you probably know the story. First, Richard Krege(1) who is a trained electrical engineer went with a team to Treblinka with a GPR machine (Ground Penetrating Radar) and other soil testing equipment. For about a week, they searched all the areas claimed to be mass graves of about 850,000 and found no evidence of mass graves anywhere. This caused such concern in the Holocaust Industry that mainstream history graduate student, C.S. Colls of the Smithsonian was sent to debunk Krege's findings but she, too, found no mass graves(2) using even more equipment. I think that you'll have to admit that 850,000 is a huge amount of people and attempting to burn so many people on an open air pyre would only char the bodies which are about 80% water and would leave an enormous, stinking mess that would be impossible to hide. Even though human remains have been found at the other work camps, no mass graves have been found anywhere that are consistent with the number of deaths claimed. Meanwhile, the mass graves of Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao do exist and are easy to find. Earlier, you mentioned the importance of evidence so where is the evidence that so many people were murdered by the Germans who have paid so dearly for crimes they didn't commit? Where is the "lie" in what I've just written and supported? 2. If Jewish people were allowed to be high ranking members of Germany's National Socialist government, where is the genocide? “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED Additionally, there were about 150,000 Jewish soldiers in Germany's WW 2 military so why are the Germans defamed as having committed "genocide"? "LIVES OF HITLER'S JEWISH SOLDIERS" "UNTOLD TALES OF MEN OF JEWISH DESCENT WHO FOUGHT FOR THE THIRD REICH" https://bryanmarkrigg.com/book/lives-of-hitlers-jewish-soldiers/ EXCERPT "As many as 150,000 Jews and partial-Jews (or Mischlinge) served, often with distinction, in the German military during World War II." CONTINUED (1) “Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves” https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php EXCERPT “A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there.” CONTINUED (2) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust” https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363 EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.” CONTINUED
You believe these (facts or not) make the Holocaust a lie. Nothing can convince you otherwise. It is like it is.
You're right, two facts don't debunk the entire SHN but they show that it is grossly exaggerated and that the Germans could have done what they have been accused of doing. Where is the real evidence? Contradictory and physically impossible stories are not evidence.
You have posted no irrefutable evidence or fact. Your claims are easily refuted and debunked https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/or7-krege-investigation/
I had already read the source you cited which is little more than a hit piece on Krege and omits the fact that Krege allowed for the topical disturbances, used additional equipment to the GPR and carried out his examination in good faith. Predictably, you omitted the fact that C.S. Colls also discovered no mass graves. (1) The mass graves of the victims of Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao etc are readily visible and impossible to miss so why are only holocaust mass graves impossible to find? It is not physically possible to execute 850,000 people with a single, old Soviet tank engine as claimed and make them disappear via an outdoor pyre. What was used for so much fuel? By the way, freshly cut trees won't burn without a tremendous amount of additional fuel and who cut all the wood. There is absolutely no hard evidence that so many people were killed. There is only evidence that people were transported to Treblinka which was a transfer station. (1) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust” https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363 EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.” CONTINUED (2) “Air Photo Evidence” http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndaerial.html EXCERPTS Treblinka Mass graves for the alleged 700,000 to 1.2 million victims of this camp would have required 40 times as much space as the witnesses state was available. The ground in the camp area shows no traces of former building foundations, large mass graves or burning pits. The Bottom Line To this day there is no air photo evidence to support the alleged mass murder of the Jews at any location in Europe occupied by the Germans during World War Two. Further, air photo analysis refutes the claim that the 'Nazis' had intended, at whatever time, to keep events in the alleged extermination camps secret." CONTINUED
Wrong. the cite I linked to is not a hit piece. It systematically disprovces Krege's claim and thast is a fact You hate it but it is a fact On the other hand you have never posted irrefutable fact as you claim which is the point The bottom line is you are posting easily shredded and refutable and disproven CRAP
Like ALL of your sources Irving is a proven liar who never used or uncovered one such fact as you claim Your claim that he has done so is a lie You have posted many lies such as you claim that it was physically impossible to kill those people and dispose of the bodies Those claims are made up from thin air by you and they are false which means LIES
Your vapid and fact free tantrums only prove that you can't refute anything I've both written and supported. Re: Treblinka, Your evading of the second source reveals your disdain for honest and civil debate: “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust” https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363 EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.” CONTINUED
Those who love our western civilisation should oppose HC denial by any means. Imagine HC deniers succeed and everyone believes the Nazis were nice boys. This could lead to a real catastrophe! Reasonable people don't want a next Third Reich. Next Hitler, aka. Putin, is already waiting for his big chance.
People who want an accurate account to history instead of grossly exaggerated and profitable anti German defamation do not support racism or totalitarianism in any form. Perhaps if you understood pre WW 2 German history better you would understand why many people supported National Socialism and everyone who supported National Socialism could not have been anti Semitic or else Jewish National Socialists(1) could not have risen to such high positions. I've already told you that I've known dozens of German Military Veterans, Holocaust survivors, a Russian captive of the Germans, other WW 2 Veterans, and German civilians who supported Hitler over ruthless and brutal Bolshevism / Communism. They all concurred with the findings of the early Red Cross report: "RED CROSS DENIES HOLOCAUST!: 1948 ICRC Report: No Evidence Of Genocide, Gas Chambers Or Systematic Extermination Of Jews. Most Deaths Caused By “Barbarous Bombing Of Civilian Germany By the U.S and U.K. Which Is A War Crime!” – ICRC PDF Here. UPDATE: In 2006, 58 Years Later, The ICRC Changed Their Story." https://truedemocracyparty.net/2020...bombing-of-civilian-germany-by-the-u-s-and-u/ EXCERPT “In 1947 The International Committee Of The Red Cross launched a Full Investigation into the question of a Holocaust of Jews in German Controlled Concentration Camps during World War 2. They found No Evidence Of Genocide, Gas Chambers Or Systematic Extermination Of Jews, and blamed most of the deaths on the “Barbarous Bombing Of Civilian Transportation Infrastructure in Germany By the U.S and U.K., which led to mass starvation, Typhus, and Death of the Civilian Population and in the Labor Camps which couldn’t get food, Medicine or any supplies at all. They called it a War Crime!” CONTINUED It's easy to sit back and condemn people who had to chose between 2 evils long ago in a tumultuous and brutal political environment but racists and murderers exist in every government Do these people in the photo below look like genocidal monsters? "Auschwitz personnel on holiday at Solahuette. They don’t look like they spend their time gassing people". HOLOCAUST DEPROGRAMMING COURSE https://fullcontrol.se/holocaust-deprogramming-course.html (1) “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED
I've reread the unprofessional hit piece you claim refutes Krege and it is replete with contradictions, distortions and lies of omission. For example, at one point the article claims that all bodies were burned to ash and then covered with sand. A few paragraphs later, the writer claims that there were extensive, charred human remains left behind. Which was the case? Among the lies of omission were the settings used on Krege's GPR. Krege's machine was set to detect the mass graves of about 850,000 bodies in the areas claimed to be the extensive burial area, not topical disturbances scattered around the entire camp. From the beginning, your source is dishonest when it states: "Holocaust deniers claim: Technology shows that the soil of Treblinka exhibits no evidence of disturbance. Detectable disturbance would have occurred if Treblinka was a death camp with large mass graves." First, neither Krege(1) nor anyone who rejects the grossly exaggerated holocaust narrative denies that the holocaust happened so the term "Holocaust denier" is a deliberately deceptive misnomer. Of course there are going to be ground disturbances at every German work camp. There is even a well defined Christian graveyard as well as graves from Napoleon's army nearby. What is missing according to Krege and C.S. Colls of the Smithsonian Institute are the mass graves of about 850,000 people which would be impossible to vaporize. Finally, your disreputable and grossly bias source didn't begin to address the fact that C.S. Colls of the Smithsonian Institute also found no mass graves (2) Unlike the fraudulent Holocaust Industry, (3), (4) Krege and anyone else genuinely interested in what really happened would welcome: "...an international team of neutral, qualified specialists, to carry out similar investigations at the sites of all the wartime German camps." This same Holocaust Industry is not content with ruthlessly persecuting anyone questioning outrageous and physically impossible myths, it fears any form of open and honest examination. I wonder why? (1) "Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves" https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php EXCERPT "While his initial investigation suggests that there were never any mass graves at the Treblinka camp site, Krege believes that further work is still called for. “Historians say that the bodies were exhumed and cremated toward the end of the Treblinka camp’s use in 1943, but we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed,” he says. “Personally, I don’t think there was an extermination camp there at all.” Krege is preparing a detailed report on his Treblinka investigation. He says that he would welcome the formation, possibly under United Nations auspices, of an international team of neutral, qualified specialists, to carry out similar investigations at the sites of all the wartime German camps."CONTINUED (2) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust” https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363 EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.” CONTINUED (3) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE" http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED (4)"HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION" http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298 EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED
We've been over this bull **** before. Reminder: 1) It doesn't matter how popular an idiotic idea is. 2) I've always been against pressing charges on people just for spouting this idiocy 3) Holocaust deniers are incapable of discussing evidence. They run away every time that can't address something without copy/pasting from one of their lunatic blogs.
No evidence . . . except the preponderance of evidence. Eyewitness accounts, gas chamber remains, the sudden disappearance of millions of Jews that conspiracy theorists pass off as just being a coincidence.
Below is the original post, and you can perhaps see why it's in the 'Middle East' section. Then the holocaust denier/revisionist hijacked the thread without likely even reading the OP. .
