English 102: "...to keep and bear arms"

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Golem, Mar 17, 2021.

  1. cabse5

    cabse5 Banned

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    Universal arms rights for Americans was never promised in the original 2A.

    Yeah, SCOTUS subsequently incorrectly interpreted 2A as a universal arms right for Americans.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    You don't have a constitutional right to serve in the military.
     
  3. cabse5

    cabse5 Banned

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    In the Biden Administration, you do now. Also in the Biden Administration, there's a whole lot of equity teaching (brainwashing) in the military.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
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  4. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    The whole basis of your argument is that the 2a, which does not grant any thing to anyone, grants powers to the federal government.
    Your interpretation cuts against the plain text. Enough.

    You have yet to reference ANYTHING but a book I'd have to buy and have delivered, which does not override the primary and secondary sources cited in Heller.
     
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  5. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they did.

    He cited various grammar primers from the relevant time period, as already stated.

    We've been over and over this. I'm sorry you can't accept basic facts.
     
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  6. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    None of this is true.
    You have no basis in fact for your claim.
    Demonstrate otherwise.
     
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  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You have no basis in fact for your claim.
    Demonstrate otherwise.
    You have no basis in fact for your claim.
    Demonstrate otherwise.
     
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  8. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You have no basis in fact for your claim.
    Demonstrate otherwise.
     
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  9. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who care what is in the original 2A? What is important is what is in the current 2A. If nothing else, the fact that they added it would indicate that it was a very important part of the amendment.
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are so funny! So you think that people are vetted by the military and rejected if they are "stressed" about their body parts?

    Hilarious! But no! Transgenders' constitutional right to bear arms was violated by Trump because... not even because Trump is a homophobe (I don't think he is), but because he was feeding demagoguery to this gullible homophobe base.
     
  11. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Even Scalia acknowledged that the 2nd A DOES refer to a military scenario. Except he arbitrarily expanded it from there ignoring all historical and linguistic facts that contradicted him. So, if it doesn't, then even less is there some UNIVERSAL right to own weapons either.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
  12. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The military will reject people with special medical needs. That would include transgender surgery or special pharmaceutical needs.
     
  13. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    That is incorrect. Owning them as personal property is part of keeping them.
     
  14. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Tying "the right to keep and bear arms" to "the militia" means that we all have the right to have grenades, bazookas, and full-auto weapons.
     
  15. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    The conservative justices have been doing exactly that.


    Because it wasn't relevant to his point.


    He does pay attention to that. That's why he keeps correcting your untrue statements.


    No he isn't. He is merely pointing out that your claims are untrue.


    He does acknowledge such history. Thus his posts pointing out that our claims are untrue.

    The reason why you are unable to use the history of the passage of the Second Amendment is because your claims are untrue.
     
  16. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    No it didn't. "Keep" means to posses the arms and maintain them in good working order.


    No it wasn't.


    That is incorrect. The last half of the Second Amendment forbids infringement of the longstanding individual right to keep and bear arms.


    The Second Amendment has always protected the right to keep and bear arms.
     
  17. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    No, you just can't back up any of your claims.


    He's read them. Thus his corrections of your untrue claims.


    Because states are forbidden from violating people's civil liberties.


    That is incorrect. Protecting the right to keep and bear arms was a primary purpose.


    No it wasn't.


    That is incorrect. The second half of the Second Amendment protects the longstanding individual right to keep and bear arms from infringement.
     
  18. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    He cited examples of the use of isolated words like "arms", "keep" and "bear". Which is irrelevant because, as philologists have pointed out, "keep and bear arms" is one complete inseparable idiom. This is why philology is done by philologists, and not by attorneys.

    All this is explained and PROVEN on the OP.
     
  19. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    so you've BSed your way into some cooking nonsense about the second amendment regarding military even though it says nothing of the sort in the amendment whatsoever because of some comments Scalia made that you clearly didn't understand?
    He only had to extend the protection because people were trying to make up linguistic techniques to deny the second amendment. His words follow what was written in 1791 you are focusing on stuff from the 19th century because it was about denying black people of the ability to defend themselves.
     
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  20. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    They didn't when the 2nd A was enacted. Looky looky... now I'M the one defending the 2nd A, and I got the right wingers arguing it's obsolete.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
  21. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Trump committed no such violation.


    But if you want to know what a law says and means, then you should consult a lawyer.


    It wasn't all that bad. The only thing he did wrong was fail to say that everyone has the right to have military weapons.


    Yes.
     
  22. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    What are you pretending the second amendment has to do with military?
     
  23. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The military, can, does, and will, reject a -lot- of people.
    Proof you have no right to be a member of the military.
    Or militia.
     
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  24. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nope. I was just clarifying how the military operates. They deploy with standard logistic packages. It is not practical to deploy people with special needs beyond those standard logistic packages. Nor do they accept someone who is going to require an expensive medical operation.
     
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  25. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Denial.
     
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