The view of a political fence sitter.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Dec 2, 2022.

  1. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    What is a fence sitter? Seems to me a common view is one too cowardly to take a stand. While I assume that definition does apply to some, it does not fit my case.

    When it comes to politics, what is the most important thing to you? A rhetorical question but feel free to answer if you like. For me it is integrity. Politicians with good moral and ethical character. Politicians that hold themselves to the standards that they hold the opposition to. Politicians that freely admit their failures and take responsibility for them. Politicians that see the admittance of failures as a strength rather than a weakness to be covered up.

    The sad reality.

    If we the people wanted moral and ethical leadership then we would have it. We have hypocritical leaders because integrity is not a top concern for us and it can get in the way of achieving our desired ends. We are often more concerned about then ends than the means. When our morals and ethics stand between us and our deepest desires is when we are at risk of settling them aside. When we are feeling insecure and our morals and ethics stand between us and a sense of security is when we are at risk of setting them aside.

    When we set aside our morals and ethics we are masters at rationalizing away our hypocrisy. We love to hold high our morals and ethics when it is convenient, and when it is inconvenient we move the goalpost then deny doing so. We can easily see the hypocrisy of the other side but are fairly oblivious to the like negatives on our side.

    While some would say I am too cowardly to take a stand, I say that I am waiting for a leader with integrity to support. Giving immense power to a person with little to no moral and ethical boundaries is a recipe for disaster no matter political affiliation.

    Political policies are important and reasonable people can debate the pros and cons of such. Yet in my opinion the ends of a policy should never be placed above integrity driven means. I am tired of watching the right and left continually fail to walk the talk. I want integrity in leadership and it seems to me that those that have it tend to not do well in the polls or become corrupted by power once they get a taste of it.

    Thus here I sit upon my perch atop the fence looking at the swamp while waiting for an honest politician to actually drain the swamp opposed to just pandering to their partisan base. I should get comfortable up here as that is not happening any time soon… if ever.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  2. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is all true to some degree. If we were more picky about who we elected, on both sides of the aisle, it would discourage the scummier bunches among us from running. Campaigns are expensive, and while it wouldn't prevent every scumbag from running, it would definitely weed out a lot of them who didn't have the money to self-fund a campaign and didn't have the confidence from those who would donate that their money will turn into a win. But our standards for the most part tend to be limited to the letter next to the person's name.

    But then again, it's also possible that there are just a bunch of people who want scumbags in power, because those scumbags say and do things that tickle their prejudices, another thing that would be true on both sides of the aisle.
     
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  3. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Until we remove the money from elections we'll keep electing greedy, egotistical, inept, lying morons.
     
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  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You have a long wait ahead of you. Integrity doesn't win elections. Empty promises win them.
     
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  5. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I voted for nobody in my house race. It isn't fence sitting. It is me throwing up my hands with both parties and their candidates. It was faux liberal who opposed student loans and supported estate tax cuts on the wealthy vs. the antichrist "Just say No!!" republican. Nothing there for me to support.
     
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  6. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why doesn't it have to be about politicians (people), when you can just take a stance on issues?
     
  7. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Certainly seems to be the case.
     
  8. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Because we largely have a representative government that votes in our stead on issues. I have limited power to vote on issues myself. In general all I can do is hold my nose while voting for a subjectively perceived lesser evil that in many cases will take stances that I oppose and carries themselves in a dishonorable way. If we keep on supporting the lesser evil then we will continue to have this corrupt and dysfunctional system. Perhaps I am fooling myself but I think we can do better. So until then I come to talk about issues here.
     
  9. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not the money in elections that's so bad it's the money to be made by politicians after elections that we need to worry about. Amazing how ordinary people get themselves elected to Congress and next thing you know they have a private jet and a little place in Bermuda.
     
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  10. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
     
  11. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

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    If only we could get back to the concept where you worked in the private sector before you got into politics. Then you get elected an serve for a while, not making a career out of it. Then you returned to private life, no more wealthy that then when you got into politics. I would not be against paying them a small pension.

    When Harry Truman retired in 1953, he was barely able to get by. That's what prompted Congress to vote a pension for former Presidents. Of course now they have an unfortunate habit of getting wealthy because of their office.
     
  12. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Democratic government is not a right, to which anyone is guaranteed-- it is a participatory sport. So, in this case, waiting does no good, for anyone. Those who say that they're just waiting for a Hero to come along, in my opinion, are living in a fantasy, and an irresponsible one, at that. I see it as only providing a pretext, for one's indolence, and lack of real interest.

    While I fully support the practice of having ideals-- and have some of these, myself-- I also realize that no person is perfect; therefore, it is patently false, that there are no people in politics, who have any degree of integrity, of note. If that, however, is your opinion, there are plenty of options, besides minding the fence. One might run for office, oneself, or encourage friends & relatives (if any of those, you find to have integrity) to run. You could grease that suggestion, with assurances that you would work as a volunteer in their campaign; as well as with the promise of a monetary contribution. This could be extended beyond one's close associates, to acquaintances or even anyone you are aware of, who meets your criterion, for integrity. If no does, that should tell you something, about the pragmatism of your expectations.

    Lastly, what does it say about that person's integrity, who expects the rest of us, to first build his ideal system, before he will be willing to come to it, and vote?


    Hey, you asked.


    Say "hello" to Godot, for me.
     
  13. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In order to become President, candidates from both parties have to campaign to the further reaches of their party in order to win their nomination, but then in order to win the general election they must pivot and jump to the center. They have to be lying during one of those two different iterations that they present of themself.

    Show me an honest Presidential candidate, and I will show you a loser.

    This may be a sad reality, but it is reality nonetheless.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
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  14. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I am not looking for perfection as that is impossible. With that said I think we can do so much better than people like Trump or Biden that care more about their base than the rest of us. Simple observation of political groups show that moderates are being run out of the party and demonized. Politics has become either you are with us or you are the enemy. I cannot in good conscience immerse myself in that sickness. There is no place for moderates in partisan political parties unless they shut up and fall in line like a good little loyalist. I am not good at the shutting up part and prefer to point out political double standards and corruption.
     
  15. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
     
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