THE UKRAINIAN ARMY HAS BEEN DEFEATED. WHAT’S LEFT IS MOP-UP

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Destroyer of illusions, Mar 23, 2022.

  1. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    We're war profiteering.

    Zelensky is willing to start WWIII to beat Russia.

    Nobody is effectively tracking either the money or weapons that just three years ago the Dems all assured us was hopelessly corrupt.

    Zelensky is now banning churches. He's not a liberal and Ukraine will not be a liberal democracy, it will remain a corrupt thugocracy, whether it's russian dominated or not.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. LibDave

    LibDave Newly Registered

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    I believe I stated just that. What can be more nostalgic than "Putin apparently has a 14th century mindset". This was a reference to Putin's attempt to restore Russian hegemony to that enjoyed by Russia after Peter the Great and the Soviet Union. Putin's psyche is stuck in the mindset Military force and military dominance over all its neighbors (and beyond) is a means of securing its borders and obtaining economic progress. It is and will bring nothing but the opposite. Russia is in the process of being militarily and economically destroyed by the ignorance and character flaws Putin has foisted upon The People of Russia. While Putin is busy humiliating himself and Russia militarily and economically on the one hand, he is succeeding in ensuring Russia's future enslavement by China with the other. He is unable to understand the vision of Russia by the West is not as a military advisory, but rather as an economic partner helping provide security throughout Europe and Asia. The Russian psyche seems forever anchored in Military destruction. Wars are very unprofitable (especially when you lose this badly) and waste the lives of many of Russia's most productive future citizens. They are in the process of losing ANOTHER generation.
     
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  3. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    Expert projection, bravo :applause: well done.

    Yeah, Russia is the country that has, what, 800 military bases scattered around the world....oh wait
     
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  4. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Just watched the whole video, and it fits the narrative. Dont think it can be explained otherwise in less time tbh. Not without excluding the facts presented.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
  5. UntilNextTime

    UntilNextTime Well-Known Member

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    This type of endless spending is what is causing the US inflation rate to climb. But that was the plan all along.
     
  6. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    So long as aggressors like Russia exist, other countries will seek the protection offered by links to off-shore democracies like the US.
     
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  8. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    Military bases that look like child's play compared to US-American bases not to mention fascist RuZZia being hopelessly outgunned by NATO to the West and our staunch Asian allies to the East. So yeah, there is that.

    Hey, aren't you the Putin supporter who claimed SIX MONTHS AGO that the Ukrainian front would be at Lviv???

    Why yes, you were that Putin supporter. Oh well, so much for that prediction.
     
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  9. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    Gotta love that successful mop-up!!

    LOL...
     
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  10. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    US support for Ukraine has always been a rare bargain for the USG.

    “United States has debt-financed as of 2020: $2 trillion.
    Estimated interest payments on that $2 trillion so far (based on a higher-end estimate of interest rates): $925 billion.
    Estimated interest costs by 2030: $2 trillion.

    Estimated interest costs by 2050: ***$6.5 trillion***.
    THE WARS END. THE COSTS DON'T:

    Amount Bilmes estimates the United States has committed to pay in health care, disability, burial and other costs for roughly 4 million Afghanistan and Iraq veterans: $1.6 to $1.8 trillion.

    Period those costs will peak: after 2048.”
    ABC NEWS, The cost of the Afghanistan war, in lives and dollars, The nearly 20-year American combat mission in Afghanistan was the United States’ longest war, By ELLEN KNICKMEYER Associated Press, July 12, 2021. (***mine)
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/cost-afghanistan-war-lives-dollars-78802965
     
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  11. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    Fascinating stats. I am truly thankful that you presented some of them.
     
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  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Certainly that's a line Moscow finds useful.
     
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  13. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Biden and Pelosi have both supported providing long range weapons systems to Ukraine.
    The war will end fast with a Ukrainian victory as soon as what's left of Russian air power is neutralized. Th.e political resistance to effective aid for Ukraine is, IMO, misinformed and foolish..
     
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  14. UntilNextTime

    UntilNextTime Well-Known Member

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    No, people who play ostrich would state that.

     
  15. UntilNextTime

    UntilNextTime Well-Known Member

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    And that's just what is on the books.
     
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  16. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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  17. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    Good man, good man.
     
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  18. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    Pressing forward during a bitter winter where they, the defenders, are better fed, clothed, armed and know the lay of the land, is the right thing to do. Kill off the Russian army before more poorly trained, unmotivated recruits get thrown into the killing fields.

    And then bomb Belgorad and Volgograd into the ground and let the Russians get a good taste of their own medicine. Enough Mr. Nice Guy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
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  19. USVet

    USVet Well-Known Member

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    We need to give Ukraine long range weapons to strike within Russia so Russia is no longer a safe place to launch attacks inside Ukraine. Plus, in order to cut off rail lines to Donbas we need to allow Ukraine to strike railways inside southern Russia.
     
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  20. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    If Ukraine had been provided with weapons systems capable of doing that this war would have been stopped before it started.
    Western Europe had better never forget that. lesson.
     
  21. LibDave

    LibDave Newly Registered

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    These numbers make no sense?
     
  22. LibDave

    LibDave Newly Registered

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    There is little "political resistance to effective aid for Ukraine" in the US. First of all, the aid provided to date could hardly be deemed ineffective. Second, there is very little resistance. A majority of Americans support Ukraine, as do BOTH parties. The internal politics have nothing to do with armaments, winter gear, food, electrical infrastructure support, etc. It is an internal discussion to make sure the process is running as it should, ensuring the aid actually gets to where it is intended, transparently without corruption or embezzlement. After all we don't want to repeat the mistakes of Russia where the funds allocated get embezzled by the oligarchs leaving the intended recipients without the intended support. Third, never look a gift horse in the mouth (an American expression, but I hope it is understood).

    As for longer ranged systems, we know what we are doing. We don't have longer ranged systems slated for salvage in the next year or two. The longer ranged systems are of more recent design and manufacture. They are slated for the needs of our armed forces. The current HIMARS, ATACMS, MLRS systems provided already have range in excess of the targeting and surveillance capability of the Ukrainian forces. In other words, the weapons currently supplied can strike out to a distance beyond anything the Ukrainian forces can target. The only exceptions are extremely distant targets of fixed position which can be geo-located by other means. For instance, a bridge, roadway or rail-line of some sort which isn't mobile and of known position. Besides, at this point the current systems can target anything inside the territorial boundaries of Ukraine with the one exception of extreme southern Crimea. Soon even the Kerch Bridge will be within range of the front lines.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
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  23. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    Amen.
     
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  24. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    There were and are Logical reasons for their hesitation, the most obvious being fear of all out nuclear war.

    Hindsight is 20/20
     
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  25. LibDave

    LibDave Newly Registered

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    I respectfully disagree. While no one wishes a nuclear war, no one is more prepared for one than the US. Our systems are tested, maintained, and upgraded on a regular basis. While we lack the numbers some other nations do, we definitely make up for it in quality. If the citizens of the US had any knowledge of the extents taken to ensure this quality, they would be shocked and quite proud of what has been accomplished on their behalf. Without a doubt, these systems-of-systems are the highest quality instruments ever produced by mankind in ANY field of technology. Not even the Space Shuttle, Space Ex, Hubble, or James Webb ST come close. Just the official budgets have been in excess of $20 Billion\year every year for the last 42 years (not including the unofficial production budgets). This investment is necessary when one considers a $20 million missile is to intercept an $80 million incoming nuke targeting in some cases a $2 Trillion city populated by as many as 10 million US citizens. It must function as intended EVERY TIME at a moment's notice WITHOUT FAIL 24 hours a day 7 days a week for in excess of 30-50 years with down times measured in minutes for the duration. There is no ability to increase the quality after-the-fact. One must be ready at all times prior to a nuclear exchange.

    If you are North American, rest assured you need not fear a direct exchange of ICBMs, as was the case during the cold war. Our shield ensures any attacker will no longer be capable of waging such aggression before our shield is lowered. Of course, this doesn't account for the repercussions of having turned the entirety of their territory to glass. Global Warming in all its exaggerations would pale in comparison. The fission devices used in Japan were 1-2 handfuls of Kilotons. They had a blast radius of about 1 mile, meaning from ground zero everything within 1 mile is vaporized (plasmasized). Outside this 1-mile radius (out to about 2-3 times the radius) intense heat, fires, radiation fallout, and flying debris provide additional problems. Such devices are capable of taking out a significant portion of downtown in a large city.

    But these fission devices pale in comparison to modern day fission-fusion devices. In these devices the fission device is merely used as the detonator for a fusion bomb (hence the name fission-fusion). They are 1000-2000 times as powerful. Each doubling of the radii requires 2^3=8 times the power. In other words, equal energy per unit volume (in most cases only half a sphere). They have blast radii of 30 times that exhibited by the smaller fission devices. Picture a circular footprint on the Earth 60 miles in diameter where everything is blackened glass. One such detonation could easily take out half of an average US state with additional damage beyond the blast radius. Then consider the fact many of these ICBMs contain multiple warheads (perhaps dozens). Using a good rule of thumb of let's say 20, this should lead you to the realization one such ICBM could potentially take out 10 average states... COMPLETELY! This potential is the reason such concerted efforts and large expenditures were warranted.

    We no longer need fear such long-range exchanges (not including the environmental impact of turning half of Asia to glass). Modern concerns have more to do with the potential smuggling of such devices into the country for detonation inside the bounds of the defensive shield. See the Jose Podilla case and read between the lines. So, this isn't just a make-believe scenario. This is a real modern concern making the border crisis all the more problematic. I highly suspect measures have been taken in this regard, but I'm not so confident these took into account a wide-open border with 3-6 million people per year flooding in without restriction. One must also account for the submarine launched devices which are non-exo-atmospheric. Suffice it to say, Putin would be ill-advised to take this to that "other level".

    We don't wish this to devolve into such a catastrophe. Neither do we fear it. We wish no ill-will on Russia or any foreign populations. What we do fear is the loss of liberty, justice and peace which would transpire should we allow concerns of nuclear exchange to preclude our defense of Democracy and Liberty. Putin's commission of atrocities, subjugating Ukraine (and beyond) in an attempt to spread hegemony over Europe, is of greater fear and higher likelihood should we fail to uphold our principles. Such as it is, we have no alternative but to ensure such actions are not rewarded and never allowed to materialize. We have lived with the threat of nuclear exchange for over 3/4 of a century. We've lived with the threat of enslavement and tyranny for millennia. In essence, "Give me Liberty, or Give me Death!" --- Patrick Henry.

    Russia started this conflict, and they can end it. Any chance of success won't come through escalation to nuclear exchange. It will only result in their complete destruction. Should they continue in a conventional manner, I believe any benefits will be assuredly outweighed by the economic costs as well as the cost in lives of Russian youth. The loss of another generation Russia can ill-afford to lose. Let us hope this lesson isn't lost on the Russian people. It is a consequence of permitting tyranny. Never again should The People of Russia allow their nation to be controlled by any tyrant. The time has come for Russia to cast off tyrants and establish a nation "Of The People, By The People, and For The People", so they can take their rightful place among nations, living in peace and prosperity through the produce of their own hands and minds. It might help for Russians to understand should they themselves be attacked in a manner similar to their invasion of Ukraine, the Americans would likewise stand by their side too. We wish nothing but peace, liberty and prosperity in Russia, just as we do in Ukraine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
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