Australia Won't Promise to Side with US in Taiwan Conflict

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Lil Mike, Mar 23, 2023.

  1. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Hmm losing allies...

    Australia Won't Promise to Side with US in Taiwan Conflict

    CANBERRA, Australia — The Australian defense minister says his country has made no promises to the United States that Australia would support its ally in any future conflict over Taiwan in exchange for American nuclear-powered submarines.

    U.S. President Joe Biden and the leaders of Australia and the United Kingdom announced in San Diego last week that Australia would purchase nuclear-powered attack submarines from the U.S. to modernize its fleet amid growing concern about China’s influence in the Indo-Pacific.

    Australian critics of the deal argue that the United States would not hand over as many as five of its Virginia-class submarines without assurances that they would be made available in the event of a conflict with China over Taiwan. Beijing says the self-ruled island democracy, which split with China in 1949 after a civil war, is obliged to unite with the mainland, by force if necessary.

    But Defense Minister Richard Marles said his government had given the United States no assurances over Taiwan.


    Frankly I thought Australia was all in in case of a Chinese attack on Taiwan, but maybe I was just misinformed by that. Or maybe Australia is sticking a finger in the wind and seeing which way the wind blows.
     
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  2. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Australians usually are rock solid. This kind of catches me off guard
     
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  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I underlined the important bit. It is not that we are walking away - just that it was not part of the AUKUS a deal. There could be a multitude of reasons for that
     
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  4. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Then we should not give Australia a damn thing.
     
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  5. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Australia has just committed to the single biggest piece of defence expenditure in its history plus AUKUS and The Quad. All are aimed at containing China. Anyone who thinks our refusal to give a committment that we have never been required to give somehow indicates a lessening of that alliance literally doesn't know what they are talking about.
     
  6. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Don't worry. We would be with you.

    If we breathe so much as a comment about Taiwan there could be serious economic punishment from China for doing so.

    We must tread very carefully with what we say.
     
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  7. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You were misinformed. As the article itself points out, the official Australian policy on Taiwan is very similar to that of the US, with an intentional official ambiguity on how it would act in the event of a Chinese attack on Taiwan. Given the wide range of possible actions China might take and the extensive socio-political implications that makes sense, with a decision on the best response only really possible in the context of the full circumstances.

    On that basis, it would be ridiculous for the current Australian government to formally commit to blindly supporting the US, essentially giving up it's own sovereignty to make it's own decisions. It probably wouldn't even be constitutional outside some formal treaty and certainly wouldn't really be enforceable. In practice, the two countries (and other allies like the UK) are very much on the same page regarding Taiwan, will have various commitments and understandings both militarily and politically and in the event of Chinese aggression, they will likely come to a common agreement on the best response.

    It sounds like this is just coming from political opponents in Australia trying to stir up division and confusion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
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  8. WhoDatPhan78

    WhoDatPhan78 Banned

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    Australia is on Taiwan's side if a war breaks out with China. This is not in question and never will be.

    Its interesting that people are so eager to jump on any hint that they wouldn't be.
     
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  9. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They don't want to announce that they have become official enemies of China (why would they), but it doesn't mean they won't help out if needed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
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  10. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Let’s hope so.
     
  11. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    And I highlighted this part.

    I admit to not knowing the context of this. Is this an issue? Do Australians think that the AUKUS deal comes with a list of conditions from the US in terms of policy? It seems odd to me that the Defense Minister would go out of his way to make this point. Is this based on pressure from China?
     
  12. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Australians generally think AUKUS ties us even more closely to the US than we already were and the commentary surrounding the purchase of the subs has reflected that. The specific comment you are fixated on may have come in response to a direct question or something that was brought up in the media. It is impossible to keep track of everything that has been said. No doubt the government is aware that China would react badly to us making such a committment, but as we have never been required to give it in the past there seems no reason to start. I have not seen a single person even hint that this in any way suggests America is 'losing' Australia as an ally. It is an interpretation that literally makes no sense to anyone following this in Australia.
     
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  13. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Good post. Australia is more committed to the alliance than ever and if Taiwan is invaded we will assist America.
     
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  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Awwww!

    Remind me again - have we ever asked for anything?
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    We have too many Taiwanese residents living in Australia to make it politically palatable NOT to support Taiwan. That is also not including the ABCs Australian Born Chinese most of whom are not exactly happy with the regime in China and then there is the issue of the baby formula and other products. Because Aus has VERY strict food and consumer safety standards there not a few Chinese speaking people making a VERY comfortable living buying products here to ship back to the wealthy in China
     
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  16. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Of course you have.
     
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And what was it we asked for?
     
  18. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The context was right there in the paragraph before the line you highlighted. "Australian critics of the deal..." raised the idea so the Australian Defence Minister responded to them with the clear clarification. It seems like it was just domestic political spin in Australia by opponents trying to discredit their government and the only reason to bring it up would be to try to create international political spin for similar reasons.
     
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  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well that was why I was asking. I didn't know.
     
  20. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We don't even recognize Taiwan. Why would we go to war to defend the sovereignty of a nation we don't recognize exists?
     
  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The US is in the same boat, which makes the hysteria over Taiwan doubly ridiculous.
     
  22. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Auzzies ALWAYS go shoulder to shoulder with us, as we always do for them. They are our brothers from Down Under.

    The French? Who knows.

    Taiwan: What is Macron talking about?

    [​IMG]

    Macron's offensive remarks 'after his three-day visit with Xi Jinping in Beijing: he said that he didn’t want to see European nations act like “America’s followers” or see them be “dragged into” a conflict with China because of America’s actions. You can bet that Taiwan was paying attention, despite the fact that Macron didn’t deign to visit them. The Speaker of Taiwan’s parliament told reporters that he found the French president’s comments “puzzling.” He also questioned whether France was no longer interested in standing up for traditional Western values.'

    THEY ARE INTERESTED IN FRANCE'S BEST INTERESTS.

    'Are France’s founding ideals of liberty, equality and fraternity are now out of fashion'?

    'Macron doesn’t want France or other European countries “dragged into” war with China. But he obviously isn’t worried about dragging the United States into a war with Russia. And even in Ukraine, France’s contributions to the war effort have been a pittance compared to what America has paid and continues to pay. (Less than 5% of what we’ve coughed up at last count.)'

    'Norbert Röttgen, a German Christian Democrat MP and former head of the Bundestag’s foreign affairs committee, tweeted that Macron had “managed to turn his China trip into a PR coup for [Chinese President Xi Jinping] and a foreign policy disaster for Europe.”'
     
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  23. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    As I suspected. Thank you.
     
  24. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    The French caved to Hitler too, I don’t have much faith in them. However, a nation built on criminals… I trust lol. No kidding
     
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  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    They are our friends,
    They can fight,
    They've gone shoulder to shoulder with us in every single fight we've gotten into.
    That tells me all I need to know about them.
    They have our back,
    We have theirs.
     
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