Remains of 215 children found buried at former B.C. residential school, First Nation says

This thread was about the bodies. Why do you keep deflecting? If you don't have bodies to show that's it.

 

1) Can you read English? Because I have repeatedly stated that the European colonization of Canada did have a genocidal impact on indigenous Canadians i.e. I'm not denying it nor am I in any way 'oblivious' to it. Once again, like your allegations about the buried children just repeatedly saying 'Monash is a holocaust denier' doesn't make me one.

2) Your obviously so focused on the issue of the genocide of per-contact indigenous peoples and cultures by Europeans. that you take any allegations of such conduct on face value regardless of whether or not the claims in question are true. The reported deaths and burials of these children are an example of this in action. As long as the allegations feed your fixation? They get a free pass. Apparently from your perspective lies are just as good/useful as the truth and just as relevant.

3) The 'apologies received from Church and State for that specific act were issued before it became apparent there was no evidence the deaths/burials in question had actually happened. The initial allegations being taken on face value in the absence of evidence to the contrary. (Which in and of itself is an acknowledgement of how bad the 'system' they ran really was.) Beyond that though given all the previously proven instances of historical abuse any retraction of their apologies for those particular deaths, even though they don't appear to have happened would have been seen as A) heartless B) counterproductive C) showing a clear lack remorse and an unwillingness to accept responsibility for their past failures to protect children in care.

In other words by the time it was discovered the events in question didn't appear to have happened it was too late to withdraw their apologies, assuming they even wanted to!

Lastly and just for you;
https://nypost.com/2023/08/31/still-no-evidence-of-mass-graves-of-indigenous-children-in-canada/
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/first-nations-graves

and most recently
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...r-indigenous-graves-amidst-calls-for-accuracy

 

I already replied to this in post 239 that it aint so.

 

That happened in the 1600's. My source is about "abused, physically and sexually, and they died in the schools in numbers that would not have been tolerated in any school system anywhere in the country." which was in the late 1800's / 1900's.

Since I already mentioned this before, I will consider this as an attempt to whitewash what the church and the government did. You got that theme in common with other people who deny an established genocide.

No... My source is about "abused, physically and sexually, and they died in the schools in numbers that would not have been tolerated in any school system anywhere in the country."

Since I already mentioned this before, I will consider this as an attempt to whitewash what the church and the government did. You got that theme in common with other people who deny an established genocide.

Utter disgusting holocaust denying like lies. I sourced that the "2015 Truth and Reconciliation Commission" looked into it.
They got graphs up showing how a hell of a lot more deaths occurred in them schools under absurd harsh conditions COMPARED to the general population, with the documentation that was around.
It's been acknowledged that most has been destroyed, hence the only logical conclusion is that the death rate is even FAR and FAR greater than the graphs already show.

And here you are just labelling that there are just some allegation made and taken on face value when confronted with a source proving otherwise.

 

What? Now your claiming the genocide has an end date? What exactly is it BTW? I only ask because I'm sure all indigenous Canadians would love to know what it is (just so they can drop any lawsuits relating to events past that date). You should tell them.

'They' obviously aren't the 215 school children identified in the title of your thread because (BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION) those 215 children apparently didn't die when and where you claim. So it must be some other unidentified children you keep harping on about. Please be specific.

Which has got what to do with the question at hand exactly? Your quoting sources from 2015 to support allegations (about unmarked graves) that weren't made until 2022. Are you suggesting that the Commission was somehow psychic?

 

There is indeed a start and an end with these schools run by the church with the help of the government.
We're at page 12, and you clearly are her to dispute anything and everything possible for the sake to whitewash a genocide.

It says right in the link of the OP that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission looked into it, how many kids in total attended the school, and how many at least died there. And than the commission judged that since so much documentation got destroyed it means it's had to be far more deaths, according to my source with no idea what exact number, but the number known already shows it was far worse than anywhere else in the country.

I again note you endlessly deny what the sources are saying, in a clear attempt to whitewash a genocide just like so many other people who deny a genocide.

The source from 2015 bases their information on 6000 eye witness accounts and the documentation as footnoted.
Your reasoning is like a nazi, saying that since there is no verified grave with DNA about the victim, it can not be proven 6 million Jews got killed.... because who cares about documentation and eye witnesses mentioned in the sources, right? It's all "face value".

 

No you deluded little person. I'm simply 'here' to get you to admit one simple thing. That the deaths you insisted had occurred apparently didn't happen - until such time as they are properly investigated and proved one way or the other.

Wonderful. Now if only that had anything to do with the the point I have constantly raised (see above) we might be getting somewhere. Sadly, it doesn't.

I have never denied what the report you keep quoting is saying. The apparently problem is this. You appear to be to dense to understand the fact that the report in question has absolutely nothing to do with the 'point' I am raising.

No, you are 'here' to prove 215 children were buried at very specific sights that have been precisely identified and where you have previously admitted no bodies have been found. Alternately you could just up and admit you were wrong about that specific claim and that apparent falsehoods should not be used to promote claims of genocide. Especially in circumstances where there is more than ample evidence the genocide in question happened in the first place!

It come down to this. Do you believe falsehoods (accidental or not) should be used to promote claims of genocide. Yes or no?

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/25/1113...anada-residential-schools-indigenous-children
A 2015 Truth and Reconciliation Commission report prompted by the harrowing tales of survivors concluded that "[children] were abused, physically and sexually, and they died in the schools in numbers that would not have been tolerated in any school system anywhere in the country."

At no point are you responding to this.

You are ignoring the sources where I proved how it is, for the sake to push your agenda of denying the genocide.

It's in the link in the OP about how many they know they attended (500), and how many died (50).
The children not making it is 10%. And that's the bare minimum, since the documentation is incomplete.
You ignore the info of the OP, like a fanatic who denies your random genocide.

 

Yes I have. Repeatedly. For some reason you just can't seem to process that fact. I've stated the level of of care were totally unacceptable, I stated the genocide occurred (which by default includes the 'care' facilities we're talking about because they are both a symptom and component of that genocide) and I acknowledge if I haven't already that the deaths were too high. To what degree I can't say because I haven't done the research but still too high.

I'm not denying your sources. Re-read my posts or get someone who can read English properly to read and explain them to you. I've never denied that a genocide of indigenous Canadians occurred or that the sources you've quoted support that contention. What I have done is (quite truthfully) point out that the sources you quote do not prove the burials we've been discussing occurred. That's all. And seriously stop insisting that anyone who disagrees with you on a particular issue is by default a 'denier' . They're not, because that's not the definition of a holocaust/genocide denier. Look it up. Instead it's just an easy way for you to dismiss points other people raise without having to consider whether or not they might be right. It's both insulting and intellectually lazy.

Which, again as nothing to do with my point. It's established fact that the level of care provided in these homes was terrible. Its established fact that far to many children died. But that has nothing to do with the alleged and so far unproven burials. The documented deaths recorded by authorities or confirmed to date by other means stand as a matter or record and support claims of genocide. The alleged burials do not.

And since you've already admitted the fact that there is no evidence (as yet) that those burials occurred the the only remaining issue between us is the one I've been trying to get you to acknowledge for some time now. And that's falsehoods, deliberate or otherwise should not be used to support or promote claims of genocide or any other serious crime. That to do so is, for all the reasons I've stated previously wrong. Wrong in this case, wrong in any case. And if you can admit that we're done here.

 

Yes you keep trying to deflect the thread topic, hoping you can find some sort of firm ground where you are not totally wrong, and you've consistently failed to do it.

 

You picked up on this conversation about an other poster.
That other poster called it all a hoax.

It's not relevant if they haven't found the burial sites.
Since it got proven beyond any doubt the genocide occurred.
It aint a hoax. That was the point of it all.
And now, you acknowledge that it did happen. It took you long enough.
The end.

 

I already responded to this nonsense in post 229.

 

I'm sorry I think you must have some kind of disability. I acknowledged the existence of indigenous genocide very early on in the debate by way of distinguishing between that real issue and the issue of the 215 alleged burials. You know, the ones you admit don't seem to have happened (or at the least have not yet been found but if real deserve to be). And I never used the word 'hoax' - in any post. Prove me wrong.

So one more time (because you do seem to have trouble grasping this very simple issue.) Do you believe it is morally right to use false or unproven claims to support debates about genocide? Answer the question, yes or no.

Because if you do believe its OK to use unproven claims to support the fact a genocide occurred it must also be alright to use unproven or deliberately false claims to allege a genocide never happened. Well, which is it?

 

And your response was inadequate.

 

You seem to have some kind of disability.
I just told you that you jumped into a conversation where somebody called it a hoax.
And here you are saying are not that person.
No sh** Einstein that the person aint you. lol

The hell it all is.
The link in the OP mentions an organization who researched the school.
They found that on the documentation that out of the 500 children who attended the school, 50 of them died.
They also found that a lot of documentation is missing. The bottom line still is: 1 in 10 died at that school.
That exact same organization looking into all them schools and made a report.
That report includes the remark that nobody will ever figure out the full extend of how many children died.
The Pope and the Canadian government saw it, and labelled their own actions as genocide.

And my position is that it all happened, including in that school, including that we will never find out how many children died.
Hence I find it irrelevant if there are 215 children buried in a basement or zero children buried in that basement.
With that, I do not deny it happened, unlike you.

 

My post 229 contains a solid argumentation, unlike your reply.

 

Bahahaha. Poor Destroyerofbraincells. Still pumping out stupidity for 3 radishes a day, all in allegiance to Pupin-in-his-pants

 

We have vastly different ideas of both the word 'solid' and 'argumentation.'

 

So what? I've never called it a hoax. Not once.

What I've repeatedly said (and you've apparently failed to comprehend) is that there's no evidence they occurred. A hoax implies deliberate intent to deceive. That could, repeat could be the case in this instance but if so that would also have to be proven. However whether the claims (about these burials) were made deliberately or not is a moot point. It suffices that so far at least they have proven to be false. Get your carer to explain this to you since idea's like evidence and intent to deceive versus unintentional mistake vs potentially provable in the future seem to be beyond your comprehension. Maybe there's a coloring in book they could give you that would help.

Which is (yet again) not related to the only point I've been contesting since the beginning (i.e. and because it's like talking to a parrot). THERE IS NOT EVIDENCE (YET) THAT THOSE BURIALS EVER OCCURRED AND HENCE THEY SHOULD NOT BE USED TO SUPPORT INDIGENOUS CLAIMS FOR JUSTICE UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THEY ARE. IF THEY EVER ARE.

Then why use it in the title of the thread if, as you've now admitted its both unproven and irreverent?

Regardless, of all your other claims (as per above) this has always been the the only one I've been contesting from the start. Yet even getting you to admit that the alleged burials have not been located was like trying to pull teeth.

And you still haven't answered the only other question I've been waiting for you to answer. i.e. is it morally acceptable to use unproven or false claims of genocide to support the cause of the victims of a (real/historical) genocide? Yes or no.

 

You got zero argumentation for the last 2 posts at least.

 

You jumped into a debate where one poster said it was a hoax.
I proved him wrong.
You went on disputing that point, without know what the point was.
Not my problem.

The OP mentions that the researchers know that 50 out of 500 died in that specific school.
I'll be going with the OP, since the culprits haven't objected and put the label "genocide" on it.
and I do not care about your opinion that is totally supportive of claiming it's a hoax without saying it's a hoax.

The OP mentions that the researchers know that 50 out of 500 died in that specific school.
I'll be going with the OP, since the culprits haven't objected and put the label "genocide" on it.
and I do not care about your opinion that is totally supportive of claiming it's a hoax without saying it's a hoax.

Why are you asking me that question? I didn't make that title.

You are linking the idea of "no burial site" with "and so it did not happen". With that you support the idea it's a hoax without saying it's a hoax.
That's on you.

That the genocide happened has been proven, without finding 1 single dead body Monash.
The Catholic Church as well as the Canadian government have accepted the proof and acknowledge the genocide.
I'm not about to go full Karin and claim I know it did not happen because of what I read of facebook.
But there is you.


I got a question for you:
Plenty of black slaves got tossed in the ocean on their way to the US for all sorts of reasons. Do you contest that it happened without a single burial site?

 

It wouldn't be 'your problem' but for the fact I've never claimed it was a hoax. All I've ever said was that there's no evidence (yet) that the burials occurred. Get your carers to explain the difernece

Again not proof the burials in question occurred. Burials you've already admitted there's no evidence of (to date).

Again (and this is becoming repetitive). I have never stated it was a hoax. (Prove me wrong.) Instead I've stated the opposite i.e. that the claims it was a hoax had to be proven. I've simply stated the burials have not yet been proven which is not the same thing.

No, you posted it. THATS why I asked.

No. I've linked it to 'it has yet to be proven.' Again get your carers 'yarda yarda yarda.'

Again. Iv'e never denied it DID happen. See your carers

Hmmm lets see. Quick question though. Were the Catholic Schools concerned at sea at the time the burials in question were alleged to have happened?

I only ask because if so that would explain why no bodies were discovered. However if, (as I strongly suspect ) the institutions in question weren't sailing the seven seas at the time but were in fact firmly rooted to their foundations where they first were established? Then yes evidence of the alleged burials would be expected but apparently to (yet again) to date, haven't been found! So I can only add that if the whole concept of 'buildings don't float' escapes you should get your carers to explain it to you.

 

I'll be waiting for you to answer my question first before we move on to your latest question. I find it very important for you to deny or to confirm people got murdered like that at sea without having a burial site to prove it happened. Because you seem to be poised to claim that people did not die unless there are remains to be found.

 

Sorry, I have answered it (after fashion). Look at my previous post. And to clarify YES they were murdered at sea (obviously). The thing is though thats irrelevant to the case in point. Now over to you.

Is it OK to use unproven allegations to support claims of genocide? I know, you know the answer. You've just refused to state it. And honesty? Once you do? This thread is finished (at least as far as I am concerned.)

 

It has been proven in the same way it got proven that those slaves got tossed in the ocean.