Avdiivka, Longtime Stronghold for Ukraine, Falls to Russians

Sure .. same as USA installed a Pro- Western president by covert action operations - bribery - election meddling - supporting Nazi extremists ..

The difference mate .. is that this is in Russia's back yard .. not Cuba in our back yard. What exactly did you think we would do if Russia started putting nuclear capable missiles in Cuba .. Oh No Jack .. not Cuban Missile Crisis 2 -- the wails coming out of the Pentagon like those of a woman giving birth -- broadcast round the world.

Nothing too difficult about that calculation Jack.

 

Except the Russian claim is a lie. The Soviet Union lost the Cold War and Russia's history follows that track. Ukraine became an independent state and has as much right as Russia to decide what their borders and international ties will be like. Putin's zombie fantasy leads logically to Russia becoming a vassal state of China. Enjoy.

 

So Chuck Schumer pulled the deal because he was intimidated by Trump?

If you want to believe that, fine.

 

How is this so hard for you to understand? Its the numbers! The deal was pulled because the Republicans who had helped draft it and were going to vote for it suddenly wet themselves and withdrew support the moment Trump said 'no'. It had nothing to do with Schumer. What was he supposed to do Einstein? Put forward a bill he knows won't have the numbers to get through?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...ld-try-to-seize-kyiv-again-at-some-point.html


How long did that claim last for? Two days?

After recent gains, Russia signals it could try to seize Kyiv again — saying the 'regime must fall'

 

What numbers? How many Senate Republicans had solidly committed to voting for the package? I mean besides McConnell and the GOP Senators who were actually part of the negotiations?

And they had all of these firm commitments before the details of the package was released?

 

You really need to learn how getting bills through either house works. Drafts are circulated for weeks or even months in advance both inside the governing party and outside to opposition members who may be persuaded to support it for their own particular reasons. For example a bill might have positive benefits for or impacts on one particular opposition Congresspersons district even if most of their colleagues aren't particularly inclined to support it.

In this case the Democrats needed a couple of Republican votes to get the Border/Ukraine bill across the line. They had those. Right up until the minute they didn't.

 

Russia in Ukraine is a no-win situation. The invasion has been a cluster of epic blunders by Russia: over-confidence, bad intelligence, poor planning ...

“Other areas of Russia's economy are hurting as the war drags on. Moscow is slammed with a severe labor shortage, thanks to young professionals fleeing the country or being pulled into the conflict. The nation is now short around 5 million workers, according to one estimate, which is causing wages to soar.
Inflation is high at 7.4% — nearly double the 4% target of its central bank. Meanwhile, direct investment in the country has collapsed, falling around $8.7 billion in the first three quarters of 2023, per data from Russia's central bank.”
“Other economists have warned of trouble coming for Russia amid the toll of its war in Ukraine. Russia's economy will see significantly more degradation ahead, one London-based think tank recently warned, despite talk of Russia's resilience in the face of Western sanctions.”
BUSINESS INSIDER, ECONOMY, Russia's economy is so driven by the war in Ukraine that it cannot afford to either win or lose, economist says, By Jennifer Sor, Feb 23, 2024, 12:23 PM EST. (emphasis mine)
https://www.businessinsider.com/rus...ary-spending-inflation-worker-shortage-2024-2

Putin is well and truly stuck in it.

no-win situation
noun

1. Any situation that is certain to end in failure or in which any favourable outcome is impossible.
2. A situation in which a favorable outcome is impossible; you are bound to lose whatever you do.

Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License • More at Wordnik

 

Losing 3 possibly 4 more jets today doesn't help the situation.....

-A50 shot down 250+ km or 160 miles from contact line....Krasnodar area.
-IL-22 communications plane also shot down in general area

-1 possibly 2 SU34s shot down in the Genichesk area....

- Armenia earlier today suspended its membership in CSTO.....looks to leave it altogether.

- 1000 + more dead orcs today

Sounds like a good day?

 

I've already told you I don't care if you believe this nonsense or not, but it IS nonsense.

A. The negotiations were in secret. There was no draft of the immigration package floating around.

B. I asked who was firmly supporting it before the package came out and until you can do that, the idea that the votes were there until Mango Menace is unfounded.

C. Anyone on the right on this forum supported this package until Trump told them no?

 

Russia's economy was supposed to have crashed in 2022. Now it's 2024? OK. we'll see. But my point is that if Russia tears away a chunk of Ukraine and keeps it, I don't see how that's a "no-win situation." That sounds like a they-won situation.

 

The same employees are operating the plant as before. Russia is in control, however.

 

Some "chunk" of Ukraine isn't good enough for the Dwarf chimp Mike.....he needs it all.

A Ukraine in NATO with all the major cities is a non starter.

 

Well you're the expert on your part of the world.

 

A) Wrong. A draft was released publicly on 5 February, prior to that information about its contents were being discussed in public in early January when negotiations over its contents were still in progress. Negotiations started in October last year and lasted 4 months with the public approval at the time of both Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnel. This is all a matter of record. Members on all sides were being updated on progress.

B) The bill was negotiated by Chris Murphy (Dem) , James Lankford (Rep) and Kyrsten Sinema (nominally an independent) Mitch McConnell (Rep) also supported it.

C) Read the names above. And the dates.

So are we happy now? Or do I have to do more research for you to answer questions you could and should have been able to resolve for yourself with a minimum of effort had you only been willing to try.

 

Sure...come on down to the Midwest....I'll show you Mt.Rushmore....Sturgis Biker rally...good times.

 

Minimum of effort indeed!

The text was released Feb 4. Prior to that time no details were officially released, however some info had leaked and Senator Lankford did the rounds of the talking head shows to deny those details (which turned out to be true).

I wanted to know which REPUBLICANS supported the bill prior to it being released.

I already knew McConnell and the GOP senators who were involved in the negotiations supported the package and said as much. Again, besides them, what Republicans supported the package? That's what I asked, and no, Sinema isn't an answer.

In short, you totally fumbled the ball on your "research." You confirmed that I was right. If there were tons of Republicans supporting this who changed their minds after Trump denounced it, you should have been able to come up with a few. Instead, you came up with exactly ZERO.

Total topic fail. You've simply wasted your time, mine, and anyone's who unfortunately read this exchange. I said from the beginning that you will believe what you want to believe, and that has turned out to be true.

 

Heh, sure.

 

WWII started because the West didn't accept Hitler-Stalin conquest of Poland. I think WWIII can be prevented if the West will let Russia to conquer Ukraine, Poland and the rest of the East Europe. GOP understands it, why Biden don't understands it?

 

Strange how the regular pro ukie nazi/Russia gonna collapse crew has no answer for why it hasn't crashed. Furthermore, with this sucky economy Russia should have, then why is it they have a 5 million worker shortage? Their entire military is around 1.3 million now (of those about 500K volunteered in the last 18 months). 4 million didn't flee the country, although over 2 million ukrainians fled to Russia. The shortage they have is because their economy is doing quite well, even with 50 bazillion sanctions.

 

Let? There is no 'letting', there is taking. Russia will take back Russian lands. Lands where ethnic Russians live. Russia is taking back Russia. And frankly I don't have a problem with it, as the only thing they are doing is correcting Lenin and Stalin's communist mistakes. And if Russia takes back all of the Russian lands in "the borderlands", then the western 1/3 of "the ukraine/borderlands" will remain. They don't want it. Do you understand why? Because those areas are historically polish/galicia. And those areas are where the nazi mentality originates. Those areas are part of the tribal areas that fought the Russians since the Middle Ages. You must understand the history of the poles, the nazis and Russians to understand this conflict. This is centuries-old bad blood.

The Russians let "the ukraine" exist post 1991 with numerous conditions, the first being they must remain neutral. Not only did they not keep their promise about that, once the nazi/nationalist took power (thanks to the USG), they began a campaign of discrimination, ethnic cleansing and genocide against ethnic Russians. Russia was only going to stand around so long....until "the ukraine" FAFO'd.

 

Really? How the hell could anyone give you precise numbers/names before the final version of the Bill was released and all members of the Republican Party had a chance to review it? Now you've clarified what you wanted? You're literally asking a question you should know no-one could answer. The point is that negotiations were publicly approved and proceeded with the approval of both Senate Leaders and there was support on the right side of the Senate during the drafting process. and the margin needed the final version into law? Was by all accounts razer sim. Just a few votes.

Unless your a member of the Senate? (And I doubt you could even find on a map it let alone get elected to it.) NO-ONE would know the exact numbers who might have supported it until the final version was released. Well at least none of us without crystal balls could. Do you own one 'Mickey'? You asked who supported the bill I gave you publicized names of those who either approved the negotiations or supported the final version of the bill.

No fail.

They only needed single digit support from the Republican side of the House to get the Bill passed. And if you knew the published names already why would you expect anyone else to know the names of those who weren't publicized? Your literally asking for information that wouldn't be known until the Bill was voted on. Without Trumps intervention? We may have found out. The point is he did intervene and now we'll never know. But given the small number of votes the Democrats needed to obtain? There was a high probability of success.

 

Some quick points:
No confirmation of Iran selling ballistic missiles to Russia despite a Reuters report on the subject. The US and Ukraine have both said no evidence of actual delivery has taken place. Iran has denied it as well. The Reuters report likely a trial balloon by Iran to gauge reactions if it finalized such a deal.
Even if Iran sold ballistic missiles to Russia, the numbers of such missiles sold would be extremely unlikely to approach the 400 mentioned by Reuters. That would seriously dent Iran's own stockpiles during uncertain times. A number around 100 would be more reasonable.
Despite spectacular success stories against the Russian navy (within dynamics being noted elsewhere, and with Ukraine using systems others had previously used, e.g. successful Houthi unmanned vessels hitting western supplied UAE and Saudi warships in the past), the overall dynamics in the war have clearly shifted from a stalemate to now one that favors the Russians. The delivery of accurate Iranian ballistic missiles (if it happens) would be a game changer if Russia decides to take out very high valued targets such as the political or military leaders of Ukraine in conjunction with more breakthroughs on the ground. More likely, however, they would be used against next level high value targets as opposed to Ukrainian military and political leaders.

 

I think they really thought the Russian economy would collapse after the imposition of sanctions in 2022. So now, they insist that the economy will crash any second now...

 

OK I think we are now clear that what you thought happened (Republicans supported the package until Trump) never really happened. This is what happens when you believe your own talking points and propaganda.

I would hope a valuable lesson is learned here, but somehow I don't think that will be the case. I would love for you to prove me wrong in that though.