Largest Covid Vaccine Study Yet Finds Links to Health Conditions

@Paradoxical You're still not answering my very simple questions (no "science lingo" to decipher at all).

So again, how do you expect anyone to present the evidence you're demanding if you're incapable of understanding the science journals but are unwilling to accept the authority of anyone explaining what they mean? How do you "know" anything at all?

 

You failed to show which one, picked a graph that you didn't understand and ignored or didn't even see that the damn conclusion contradicted your claim. Hilarious!

Your failure to understand the graph and a failure to read the report's conclusions demonstrates who that may be (bolding mine).

Waving your arms around with a complete bullshit statement. The "other ones", none of which you could possibly have read, state unequivocally that lockdowns worked.

Not you. Irrelevant diversion.

Irrelevant again.

Luckily they were assisted by lockdowns, social distancing and vaccinations.

Nope. Your bloviating hyperbole means nothing.

 

You are the one who doesn't understand them. Getting all upset because others can, means nothing!

"Deciphering" probably one of THE most easy to understand series of reports is your failure, live with it and stop moaning about it.

Wow, it "went up" for 14 days after a country-wide lockdown began. You think that the second people go indoors it all stops? It takes 5 to 6 days to incubate and a few more days before someone goes to hospital, then a period of time before they die! And any honest person looking at that top line of infected can see it curving less!

More irrelevant, diversionary, covered-to-death off topic crap.

 

The chart was all one needs

 

I believe we are getting the run-around. No amount of totally obvious evidence will suffice. When someone thinks a graph works(when it doesn't) then ignores the numerous ones that contradict it, there won't be any meaningful resolution.

 

I am mystified and annoyed that you cut off the chart, most likely intentionally as well as saying previously I didn't show what chart I was talking about when I plainly showed it was number 5 on your post about Italy. If this is your MO, you and I will party ways very quickly.

You show a trajectory on their chart that starts in column B and you curiously made sure that the date in column B is not shown, Why is that? I included the full chart in my post and you pretended as if I never posted a chart at all. Here is the REAL chart.



Now, class....note that the poster left out the date(s) that this trajectory started on, and it was February 23rd and 24th. Stay with me here, because SOMEONE drew a red line starting at the B column above that doesn't exist at all on the link. It appears that the poster Betamax put that there himself to try to imply that the scientists were saying that the lockdowns started on February 24 and immediately the trajectory changed. However, the lockdown didn't happen until March the 6th!!! That means for no known reason at all the trajectory become smaller starting on February 25 with NO lockdowns at all.

Further, it you were to draw a line on the orange circles from the date of lockdowns you see NO change whatsoever of the trajectory!!@

Most of you don't know me yet and I am debating whether to continue here, or not. What I am seeing is the same thing that other leftists do, which is to prove me right in their posts and this case is no exception.

Trajectory going sky high on 2-24. Levels off on 2-25 with no reason known. Lockdowns happen on March 9, two weeks later. From that point on the normal trajectory before then stays the same.

So much for (ahem) science.

 

Well I really don't care and am not surprised at you being "mystified".

Imagine how disappointed I would be! My "MO" is to show how your pathetic chart is meaningless, since the conclusion from the damn report contradicted your claim. Is that your MO? Deny everything that contradicts your position? Cite charts without links and descriptions?

None of that was needed, it shows the trajectory, tell everyone why you omitted the description.

Irrelevant! You had already posted the damn chart! With a deceptive omission it seems. Tell the "class" how you missed it out?

I did put it there and the lockdown started at the key area where the cases were occurring! Hence the description! But folks stay with ME now, look what he did, he posted the chart but left out the description. Let's get it shall we?!

Spread and dynamics of the COVID-19 epidemic in Italy: Effects of emergency containment measures | PNAS
"Time evolution of the COVID-19 epidemic in Italy. Time marks are as follows: a, the first patient with suspected local transmission is hospitalized in Codogno; b, first confirmed cases; and c, d, and e, main containment measures enforced by the Italian government (detailed in Materials and Methods)."

Did he just say "no known reason", even though HIS chart has a description, deliberately left out that shows the EXACT reason! Codogno - 1st local lockdown.
COVID-19 lockdowns in Italy - Wikipedia
"Initial lockdowns
"The first lockdown began around 21 February 2020, covering ten municipalities of the province of Lodi in Lombardy and one in the province of Padua in Veneto, and affecting around 50,000 people.[9] In the most affected town of Codogno (pop. 16,000), police cars blocked roads into and out of the quarantined area and erected barriers.[10] The quarantined "red zone" (zona rossa) was initially enforced by police and Carabinieri,[11] and by 27 February it was reported that 400 policemen were enforcing it with 35 checkpoints. The lockdown was initially meant to last until 6 March. While residents were permitted to leave their homes with supplies such as food and medicine being allowed to enter, attending school or going to workplaces was not allowed, and public gatherings were prohibited.[12] Train services also bypassed the region.[13]"

I'm done with you. You won't accept data, you admit you don't understand the reports and refuse to believe that others understand them!

Even though it clearly doesn't. I'm not even admitting that the damn figures mean anything anyway - they definitely don't!. Lockdown isn't going to make much difference so soon. There's a whole number of already infected, it's infecting people exponentially. The local one limited the outward spread, hence its significance, but numbers were quite small at that point.

Your research skills need work.

 

My wife uses the phrase, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them" and in your case, you have shown me who you are. Knowing that the lockdowns did not start until almost two weeks later, you added a line of your own making it appear to a reader who would have no reason to check, that they did start earlier so that you could say the lockdowns worked because they stopped going up at that rate. Then you took out the dates using Photoshop or a similar program.

This is deception at the highest levels just so you could make it appear that I was wrong and you were right. Apparently, you imagined that I was some dolt who didn't know how to check such things because I admitted that the science jargon is nearly indecipherable because they use words and phrases that are common to their line of work like doctors do in their line of work.

It's easy peasy for someone to plaster several or more links on a board and expect the reader to go fetch and read what amounts to hours of technical scientific literature to DISPROVE the links that you never read or understood but pretended you did. I wasn't going to read any of them but picked one at random just to see and because I was relaxing after some yard work. The very first link was found to be hogwash and speculation.

This is the trouble with the world today. They use fact-checkers, scientists, and other academics to control and indoctrinate the people. The number one method is to put them in fear. They did that by saying we need to lock you down because if we don't, you'll all die!!! Then when the lockdowns are acorned and ridiculed as having been unnecessary, science nerds hurry up and invent reasons that they did work. The sheep eat it all up because they love to be controlled by a big government and have to justify why they are and were so docile.

Figures don't lie but lairs figure.

 

Bloviating noise!

What nauseates most is that YOU are the deceptive one!

Here is the link: Spread and dynamics of the COVID-19 epidemic in Italy: Effects of emergency containment measures | PNAS
Here is the chart:


And here is the description you deliberately left off that PROVES you completely wrong!
"Time evolution of the COVID-19 epidemic in Italy. Time marks are as follows: a, the first patient with suspected local transmission is hospitalized in Codogno; b, first confirmed cases; and c, d, and e, main containment measures enforced by the Italian government (detailed in Materials and Methods)."

In this case we are talking about LINE C - the first Italian local lockdown circa Feb 21-23
Notice the town where it happened - Codogno; b

People reading this will just see another covid conspiracy theorist screwing up and once more failing to admit it!

 

I love the internet today. Decades ago, one would have to spend days if not weeks going to a library and reading reams of books. Today, you can destroy someone's post in a New York minute. Here ya go:

During Covid-19, Italy locked down the populace. Someone said that the first Italian local lockdown circa Feb 21-23 but Copilot has said earlier that the lockdowns in Italy didn't occur until March 9. Which is correct?

Italy’s COVID-19 lockdown timeline provides a clear picture of the measures implemented during the pandemic. Let’s break it down:

1. February 21-23, 2020:
   
   • During this period, Italy did not have a nationwide lockdown.
   • However, there were clusters of COVID-19 cases in Northern Italy1.
2. March 9, 2020:
   
   • Nationwide Lockdown: On this date, Italy implemented a national lockdown due to the escalating pandemic.
   • The lockdown involved restrictions on movement, closure of non-essential businesses, and limitations on social interactions.
   • This marked a significant step in Italy’s efforts to curb the spread of the virus1.

In summary, the March 9, 2020 date corresponds to the official nationwide lockdown in Italy. Any local measures before that were not part of a comprehensive national strategy. Therefore, the statement that lockdowns in Italy didn’t occur until March 9 is accurate1.

How big of an area was locked down in Northern Italy or anywhere else in Italy before the nationwide lockdown.

Before the nationwide lockdown in Italy, several localized lockdowns were implemented in response to the growing COVID-19 pandemic. Let’s delve into the details:

1. Initial Lockdowns (Around February 21, 2020):
   
   • The first lockdown measures were implemented around February 21, 2020.
   • These initial restrictions affected specific areas:
     • Province of Lodi (Lombardy): Ten municipalities in Lombardy were placed under lockdown, affecting around 50,000 people.
     • Province of Padua (Veneto): One municipality in Veneto was also part of this initial lockdown1.
2. Expanded Lockdown (Around March 8, 2020):
   
   • By March 8, 2020, the locked-down area had expanded significantly:
     • It covered the entirety of the Lombardy region.
     • Additionally, it included fourteen provinces in the regions of Piedmont, Veneto, Emilia-Romagna, and Marche.
     • Notably, this area encompassed major cities like Milan and Venice.
     • It also extended to a separate zone surrounding San Marino1.

In total, approximately 60 million people (the Italian population) were affected by these localized lockdowns before the nationwide measures were imposed on March 9, 20201.


So, folks, out of a population of 60 MILLION, on February 21, one small area of 50,000 was locked down and the poster triples down now and says that's why the chart stop zooming upwards....because in a country of 60 million they shut in 50,000 people!!!

I think you should stop while you're behind.

 

Coronavirus: Quarantine raises virus fears in northern Italy - BBC News
It was the source of the Italian outbreaks, a local lockdown as CLEARLY detailed on the chart - the one where you missed out the very description detailing it!

Contradicted by your own damn chart description that you "left off"!

Pure deception, temporarily slowed. I clearly stated this! ..

Even though it clearly doesn't. I'm not even admitting that the damn figures mean anything anyway - they definitely don't!. Lockdown isn't going to make much difference so soon. There's a whole number of already infected, it's infecting people exponentially. The local one limited the outward spread, hence its significance, but numbers were quite small at that point.

The irony.


Answer the following:

• In the chart description (deliberately omitted) does it say Line C is the first Italian lockdown - yes or no?
• Does that indicate the town of Codogno as the source - yes or no?
• Was Cordogno part of a local lockdown with the dates shown on the chart - yes or no?

 

I think we're done here. Lockdowns didn't do ****. This was just a virus that was stronger than the common flu and most of those who died were elderly and sick. If you make people stay at home you make it worse because once the infection starts it attacks the vulnerable who carry it in their systems and then give it to family members.

WITH lockdowns and heavy vaccinations and masking, Italy had the FOURTH HIGHEST death rate in the entire frigging world!!!!

 

Just to point out that this whole line of crap is completely off topic!

Yeah, don't dare answer those 3 simple questions showing who has been making all the blunders!

• In the chart description (deliberately omitted) does it say Line C is the first Italian lockdown - yes or no? Answer YES
• Does that indicate the town of Codogno as the source - yes or no? Answer YES
• Was Cordogno part of a local lockdown with the dates shown on the chart - yes or no? Answer YES

As predicted, no amount of evidence would suffice, 64 reports given showing how lockdowns most certainly DID work and we get covid-conspiracy-by-numbers batshit.

Four exclamation marks, clue number one. Simple research:
COVID-19: Why has the pandemic affected Italy so badly? | World Economic Forum (weforum.org)
"

• On a per capita basis, Italy lies 37th in the world for number of coronavirus cases, but 4th when it comes to deaths.
• In 2019, Italy had the oldest population in Europe, with 22.8% of its people aged over 65.
• It has one of highest life expectancies worldwide at 83 years.
• But a 2017 report showed 71% of over-65s had at least two underlying health conditions.

In late November doctor Maurizio Cappiello visited more than 130 patients in the emergency room of Cardarelli hospital, in the southern Italian city of Naples. More than two-thirds had COVID-19.

The virus which was limited mainly to Italy’s industrial north during the first wave in the spring was now also ravaging the poor south, overwhelming its fragile public health system."

 

There are 195 countries in the world. With Lockdowns, they are in the top FOUR of death rate per million. What more needs to be said?

Italy implemented several lockdown measures during the COVID-19 pandemic. Let's break down the key periods:
1. **Initial Nationwide Lockdown (March 9, 2020 – May 18, 2020)**:
- On **March 9, 2020**, Italy's government imposed a **national lockdown** or quarantine in response to the growing pandemic of COVID-19.
- The lockdown restricted the movement of the population except for necessity, work, and health circumstances.
- It included measures such as the **temporary closure of non-essential shops and businesses**.
- This initial lockdown lasted for approximately **2 months, 1 week, and 2 days**¹.
2. **Subsequent Measures**:
- Italy experienced additional lockdowns and restrictions in late 2020 and 2021, but the initial nationwide lockdown was the most significant.
- For example, during Easter weekend in **April 2021**, Italy entered a strict three-day lockdown to prevent a surge in COVID-19 cases².
- Various measures were adjusted over time based on the evolving situation and available data³⁴.

So much for science "proving" that lockdowns work. This reminds me of when I was a Catholic being told that prayer works. When it didn't, I was told it was God's will. When I asked if you could change God's will, the nuns would go silent.

 

What more? Well the bit you completely ignored for starters!

Simple research:
COVID-19: Why has the pandemic affected Italy so badly? | World Economic Forum (weforum.org)
"

• On a per capita basis, Italy lies 37th in the world for number of coronavirus cases, but 4th when it comes to deaths.
• In 2019, Italy had the oldest population in Europe, with 22.8% of its people aged over 65.
• It has one of highest life expectancies worldwide at 83 years.
• But a 2017 report showed 71% of over-65s had at least two underlying health conditions.

In late November doctor Maurizio Cappiello visited more than 130 patients in the emergency room of Cardarelli hospital, in the southern Italian city of Naples. More than two-thirds had COVID-19.

The virus which was limited mainly to Italy’s industrial north during the first wave in the spring was now also ravaging the poor south, overwhelming its fragile public health system."

• The report You cited - that you previously suggested used "nerdy language" that you didn't understand! - clearly proved that lockdowns worked.
• You were given links to 64 similar reports that you ignored!
• Demographics in Italy suggested the population ages, health levels and health care infrastructure were the main problems. Ignored by you!

 

And the evasion continues, as is inevitably the case with every conspiracy theorist - "things" get ignored when they are inconvenient to the batshit claim!

 

Look, I get it. I really do. COVID-19 was really bad in Italy cause people are old and sick already. But lockdowns work. Italy could have been number ONE in deaths per million. Maybe. Possibly. Could be. I guess. I dunno.

I understand now. Never been to any Alcoholics Anonymous meetings but here in America, judges sentence drunk drivers to go there because the judges (experts, people in authority) were made to believe that the cure rate is really high. Several years ago, you could find stats on the success rate of various programs, but you can't anymore unless you really dig. Why? Because their success rate is between 5 and 15%, the same as one would expect if they relied on a Ouija board for life's answers. I heard that they finish their meetings with making everyone hold hands and saying,

"Keep coming back. It works!"

Like science.

 

Lockdowns work. Proven.

 

Gotcha. Prayer works too. Neither one has one ounce of proof. Matter of fact, the evidence shows the opposite based on Itlay being number 4 in deaths and you choose to chalk that up to age and health.

 

Err no.

What a totally pathetic non sequitur comparison.

Chain-yanking of the nauseous kind. Presented to this person, 64 research papers showing it worked and he makes yet another deceptive dismissal.

You keep saying Italy was number 4 in deaths without showing where you are getting this from or when the majority of deaths occurred! From wiki:

Table of total cases, deaths, and death rates by country
Note: Table is automatically updated daily.[note 1] Data source is Our World in Data.[note 2][note 3] updated March 28, 2024.
COVID-19 pandemic cases and mortality by country[11]
Country Deaths / million Deaths Cases

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/coronavirus-deaths
Italy was 8th in total deaths but far more significantly, was 21st in deaths per million!

That's the chart of deaths by month over the pandemic. Hmmmm, wonder why it started coming down from April 3 weeks after lockdown!

ALL Italian lockdowns occurred in 2020 and that was less than 1/3 of the total deaths! In short, your claim is complete and utter hogwash!