Many on the Left seem to have no regard for Natural Rights

If they're not just made up, that shouldn't be a problem for you.[/QUOTE]

It's not a problem for me, nor was it a problem for the Founders and the countless others who preceded them (such as the aforementioned William of Ockham).

Personally, I categorize them into a set of core natural rights and then the natural (and in our case constitutional) rights that extend from those core natural rights. Amongst the core natural rights would the right to life, the right to self-defense and the right to self-proprietorship. From those core rights extend the rights affirmed in our Constitution, where you will find the specifics listed in our Bill of Rights.

As for how I know they are my inherent Natural Rights, I know this through my faculty of Reason.

 

That idea certainly didn't come from me. Personal bodily autonomy is an extension of the core natural rights of life and self-proprietorship.

I agree, and that's why I support women's reproductive rights and the rights of everyone to refuse to take the Covid vaccine that Joe Biden tried to force everyone to take.

I agree.

It would be nice if people were consistent about this, wouldn't it?

 

So in other words, you oppose "natural rights" because you believe that would get in the way of government being able to provide other "rights" you want.

Is that correct?

So does this come down to a trade-off between different types of rights?
(Especially the trade-off between "positive" and "negative" rights, I suspect)

I am aware that many of the "rights" that progressives support necessarily involve taking away the rights of others.
(Such as creating employee or customer rights at the expense of employers, or meddling in the economy)

If so, what this boils down to is a very different conception of what "rights" are, and should be.

 

Life, liberty, property is the usual choice.

Others, such as a communist, would say fairness is obviously a natural right, and property isn't. They'd say no human has the right to exploit the labor of another. And they'd say reason led them to that conclusion.

Some would say the "right to contract" is nonsense, that it was invented by exploiters who want to be free to behave immorally.

Why aren't such people correct about Natural Rights?

As Hobbes put it, a pure natural rights philosophy makes life "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short", given that under it, no human has any obligation or motivation to do jack squat for anyone else. A natural rights philosophy has to be tempered with utilitarianism.

 

Of course the right to contract isn't absolute under Natural Rights.

It could be perfectly reasonable to have government say there are certain sorts of contracts people are not allowed to enter into, and which are unenforceable.

The importance of protecting contracts has more to do with not changing the agreed upon rules after the game has already begun, and to make sure people get what should rightfully be theirs and are not scammed out of money.

But it's just so often on the Left there is a tendency to want to back out of contractual agreements after they have already gotten the money, and "get something free" for nothing.

 

What right are you concerned about that you think some "side" is opposed to natural rights?

 

Great!!

But, today the MAGAs and the USSC are working toward a universal denial of women's reproductive rights.

We all know that these moves can't be used to paint and entire party.

As for COVID, we would have to discuss that issue.

 

I'm a culturalist relativist so I'm big on natural rights I don't think it is the same as Christian Nationalism. Those are two different things.

 

I do not oppose natural rights, they are "natural" rights, not some God given rights

 

The SCOTUS kicked abortion down to the states, and it's not "MAGAs" who are working toward a universal ban. It's social conservatives and anti-abortion folks on the Right and Left who are doing that.

As for COVID, there's nothing to discuss. If you support the right to bodily autonomy then you opposed Biden's unconstitutional vaccine mandate...



THIS is not how it works.
When it comes to bodily autonomy, Joe Biden and the Faux Choice crowd are the rankest of hypocrites.

Either you support that right all the time or you don't.

As I said earlier, it would be nice if people were consistent about this, and unfortunately both the the Democratic and Republican parties are not.

 

That is a prime example of false equivalence. Mandatory vaccines are not the same as outlawing abortions. Following your logic, it could be argued that recreational drug use should be completely legal since the government shouldn't be able to tell someone what they can put into their body since that would be against bodily autonomy, but of course the government can and does outlaw recreational drug use in order to protect the user and those around them. The same is true of mandatory vaccines. Vaccinating the population helps protect everyone, including the person vaccinated. It also help the economy because it reduces the number of people that have to take time off from work because they are sick, and it helps national security because our military cannot function without healthy men and women who are ready to fight. This is nothing new, the military has a long history of mandatory vaccinations, going all they way back to General George Washington ordering mandatory inoculation of troops with the Small Pox vaccine during the Revolutionary War.

Abortions on the other hand, are not a threat to public safety or the woman's health. It is quite the opposite, many abortions are performed to save women's lives. Now I know some people are going to argue that abortions kill people, because life begins at conception, but there is no solid evidence that this is true, biologically or legally, though this is not the place to debate that. Send me a link to a thread on this subject, and I'll happily debate the issue there.

 

Requiring proven steps to defend our nation against a serious universal threat is ... hypocrisy?

When our troops die defending America in the place of our government's choosing we recognize their heroism. (Except Trump, who calls them "suckers").

What do we call people who make a political statement out of not wearing a mask or getting a shot in order to defend themselves, their friends, our hospital workers and our nation?

 

No, that's SOP for the right. See "Trump, Donald". The entire right worships that behavior.

Anways, who decides what these Natural Rights are?

I've heard people say that the following are "Natural Rights":
-- Medical Care
-- Shelter
-- A basic income.

Why are they wrong, given they use the exact same "They're natural rights because I say they are!" logic that your side uses?

Curiosu, that people always conclude that "Natural Rights" match their own politics.

 

Hypocrisy is supporting bodily autonomy when it suits you and then opposing it when it suits you.

Perhaps the same thing you call the sheep and cattle who make a political statement by wearing a mask or getting a shot that doesn't halt the spread of the virus, i.e., protect themselves, their friends and their nation?

Of course, you conveniently overlooked all the people who didn't follow the politics and based their decisions on the efficacy of masks and the vaccine and what was best for them, because it's their body and their decision - not the decision of some politician (and his supporters) who unlawfully tried to circumnavigate the Constitution in order to prop up his lousy approval numbers and wound up getting slapped down by the Supreme Court.

 

The brain and other organs are highly important in sexuality. I don't know what you are referring to here. When it comes to sex, you have to ASK.

Yes - I do believe in science based medicine. And, there are well know ways for viruses to be communicated. How can someone care so little for their families, friends and America that they can't be bothered?

This had absolutely NOTHING to do with "approval numbers".

The objective is to defend America. In this case, it didn't require volunteering at the DoD. But, it was seriously important.

The idea that someone couldn't wear a MASK to reduce transmission is absolutely astounding to me.

 

I don't know what you were talking about either, but yes sex is either consensual or it's rape/criminal.

In many cases it was ALL about the approval numbers and the lie that the vaccine would halt the transmission of the virus, which it doesn't.

The difference being that enlisting in the military is actually about defending America. Taking the COVID vaccine is not. That was and remains a personal decision that is up to individuals to decide for themselves and in consultation with their physicians if they so choose. Your body, your choice.

Given that masks didn't halt the transmission of the virus I find it anything but astounding.

 

Yes as to your comment on consent.

But, the point is that you can't look at someone and know their sexual orientation. 3333333

The vaccine significantly lowered the chances of getting COVID.

Plus, when vaccinated, the person contracting COVID will experience far reduced symptoms and will be much less likely to need medical attention. This part is significantly important, as our first responders and medical staff deserve respect for the serious risk they take.

Nonsense. Look at the damage COVID did to our nation. One would literally need to hate America (as well as their families) to decide that it just isn't worth the bother.

Our military is voluntary, too. But, we're blessed with those who stand up to protect our nation. Trump calls them suckers! And, he did the same with those who took advantage of medical science, too. There was NO justification for politicizing the defense of our nation in this way.

Masks help reduce transmission rate.

You can't understand that???

 

a patent falsehood that claim friend Will --- The Jab did not significantly prevent transmission -- even the CDC had to admit that much early on .. although the left media carried on with the false transmission trope for quite sometime after .. so no surprise to hear folks still believing this. .. but is 100% false .. one of those Cancel Culture lies compliments of the Woke Joke .. just cancel the science they don't like .. anti Science denialism at its finest.

Your body no longer your choice .. Forced Medical Treatment for the "Unclean" dissenters .. a woke version of Krystal Nacht .. Jab or lose job .. justified on the basis of preventing Transmission .. something the Jab simply did not do..and thus "illegitimacy of authority" on the basis of fallacious utilitarianism.

 

The problem is Christian Nationalists want to define what "God given" natural rights are and the courts and laws can't stand in the way..
BTW even most Catholics are for the right to choose.

 

To most (all) educated people, no. They are not the same thing. Maybe a different breed of conservative can accept that. As for the examples you asked for: executing people for being gay, executing people for being trans, outlawing homosexuality, outlawing transgenderism, outlawing parents from providing prescribed care for trans and gay people . . . do you need me to go on? But let me guess: you are okay with at least some of that, right?

 

Is freedom or religion an inherent natural right? If so, why does the Bible punish it with execution?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html
"

• Stay up to date with COVID-19 vaccines.`
  • Although vaccinated people sometimes get infected with the virus that causes COVID-19, staying up to date on COVID-19 vaccines significantly lowers the risk of getting very sick, being hospitalized, or dying from COVID-19.

"

 

How many times have I told you now Will --- the Gov't is lying to you .. the Jab only "Significantly" lowers the risk of harm for people who are already ready to die. This is not the case for average people who are not on deaths door .. old, morbidly obese with many comorb and severely immune compromised.

What is the risk of a healthy person dying from Covid Will ? .. and why were you not told this information prior to the Jab .. along with the risk of harm from the Jab ?

 

Many founding fathers were hypocrites because of going on about ‘natural rights’ whilst keeping slaves and subjugating women.

 

I cited my information.

Those who died from COVID were certainly NOT limited to the old and infirm - either in the US or in Europe, which is where our COVID variants came from.