BMW Ends ICE Production in Germany! Mercedes?

The bloom is off the Tesla rose.
What happened to Tesla? Weak sales, layoffs and recalls weigh on outlook.
The company is facing its greatest set of challenges since a series of unforced errors called Elon Musk’s leadership into question in 2018.
By Faiz Siddiqui and Trisha Thadani

 

Yes, you found someone that has a ridiculous opinion, part of which you seem to like.

We're not going to stop driving. But, we may do it for cheaper, while not polluting our cities.

 

It will be more than just interesting to see what the heck Musk is trying to do.

And, China is certainly serious competition.

Another serious question is what's going to happen with Japan's companies. Toyota is the most indebted company in world history. They don't have the cash to pay off short term debt. And, Japan doesn't have the financial ability to bail out them and other Japanese auto manufacturers that are in trouble.

 

Toyota will be fine.
Fitch Affirms Toyota at 'A+'; Outlook Stable

Fitch Ratings
https://www.fitchratings.com › corporate-finance › fitch...

Nov 7, 2023 — 5 trillion in cash and cash equivalents at the end-March 2023, which is greater than the auto business's debt of JPY2.7 trillion. Toyota's ...

 

We don't pollute now.

 

ICE vehicles absolutely do pollute our air, and enough to cause healthcare costs.

This isn't in question.

 

Not anymore.

 

Can you give me a single name of a real human being who has actually been treated for any condition caused by supposed ICE "pollution" in the last, say, fifty years?

Or maybe an autopsy report that lists ICE "pollution" as even a contributing factor in anyone's death?

And if you can, can you tell me how much was spent treating those conditions?

Or is that claim just another unproveable economist's projection to scare people?

 

There are many articles and studies on how ICE exhaust affects human health.

NRDC Report

This article goes over the health damage of transportation pollutants.

 

There is a constant effort to reduce air pollution from transportation. And some ground is being gained.

But, ICE transportation is still incredibly expensive in healthcare and lost work hours.

 

Nonsense.

 

So nothing.

That's what I thought. You've only got speculation from politically motivated economists.

If ICE vanished tomorrow, not a single actual dollar would be saved by anybody.

 

My cite comes from one of many organizations that measure health care factors of pollution.

If ICE vanished tomorrow, health care costs would begin to recede by some amount related to the removal of that cause of disease.

 

How are you going to do that drive to magical bunny cars. Sorry to break this to you electric car is pollute.

 

electric cars pollute. So a lateral move doesn't do anything. Except for your sacrificing function for social signaling. And nothing else

Probably not. They'd probably increase because the amount of stress of having to use a less functional vehicle and the pollution won't be decreased sorry to break that to you.

 

There's one and only one reason: The government doesn't pay a part of the bill anymore. So 11% is really much. The numbers will grow again throughout the year: There is a new law that supports even small solar panels and those who want a new car buy Plug-in Hybrids, not pure Diesels.

 

But they don't actually do any of that. They use economists to guess at the numbers.

I've done it professionally when I worked for DOT. Back in 2010 we were proposing a rule change to increase fuel economy standards. As part of the process we hired a consulting firm for $1.7 million to do the health projections and I was in charge of getting them to do it. That means my name is on it in the Federal Register.

Anyways, the report concluded that the change would save 300 lives in 2030 along with saving $7 billion.

Now try thinking rationally about that. That's 20 years down the road. And the US is a country where a bit less than 3 million people naturally die every year regardless. And these folks guessed that that toll would be a whopping 300 less in 2030. Talk about picking fly shiite from the pepper!

And the money angle was even worse. This was supposed to save somebody $7 billion in 2030. But there was no indication who would have that cash still in their pockets at that time nor who exactly would be out $7 billion that they would otherwise have.

The problem with the government that does this is that years ago there was put into place what's called a "pay/go" rule where any new rule change has to pay for itself.

On paper anyways. And nobody ever goes back and checks to see if it actually works out as projected.

Therefore it's an eternal fraud that keeps economists employed.

Your "professional organizations" are no different.

And it remains a laughable fraud that should be embarrassing.

But actual dignity or embarrassment are unknown entities in DC.

 

Electric cars do not emit health impacting chemicals and particulates into our neighborhoods. ICE vehicles do.

The major source of electricity in Ohio is wind.

In CA, Electricity is 37% natural gas and 3% coal. The other 60% is renewable, nonpolluting (unless you want to discuss nuclear). Movement is toward more renewable energy plus large scale batteries.

IN NO WAY can ICE come close to EVs in terms of pollution caused healthcare problems.

Also, having world oil pricing cause spikes in US inflation is something worth reducing. And, ICE transportation is a major percent of the reason that can happen, since 60% of our oil consumption goes to fueling ICEs.

 

It will be great to see Germany move forward. The ending of subsidies for EVs is somewhat like a price reset - which I don't believe will have long term impact.

 

Good for you for taking it seriously.

But, EVs take that pollution / mile number to zero.

And, past automobile mileage regulations have been heavily impacted by manufacturers who lobby congress for no regulation and use factors like fleet averages to decrease effectiveness of such regulation.

Plus, today we have more sophisticated methods of measuring impact - not a criticism, just a matter of improvement.

 

You really didn't get what I said, did you?

 

Yes, I did.

But, I don't see that the past study (that you didn't cite) must be considered definitive.

Nor do I see it as being useful as the basis for extrapolation to define what is happening today.

 

It's useful in defining exactly how complete BS is promoted by "professional organizations" trying to influence and sell nonsense on political issues.

We did nothing other than create pollution out of whole cloth because it supported what we wanted to do anyways.

 

yes they do you just eat up whatever lie you're fed don't you.

You have to first generate electricity for them and that's typically burning fossil fuels. But can't be too far away because the electricity can't travel indefinitely. They also have tire wear 20 extreme far worse than the heaviest of gasoline vehicles.

not if you've increased the demand six fold. And that's a conservative estimate for the amount of energy you're going to waste on these stupid things.

that will all change when you need about 60 million more homes worth of energy produced to run your stupid electric cars you don't seem to understand. 37% of the energy being produced by natural gas is barely and sometimes not even making requirements as they stand so if you're going to multiply that by 6 you're going to have to burn coal

Electricity isn't magic it's generated it has to be under one you want six times more you have to produce six times more

that movement will fly right out of the window when you increase the demand of electricity by six times.

Why is it can your religion you don't take into account that more is more.

right they're much better than Evs.

You have to burn a lot more cold to power over your EVS. California's just got out of having rolling blackouts. And also they buy energy from other states. So if you increase the demand by six times to power all your stupid virtual signals that's going to be horrendously detrimental to the environment.

And also let's not forget electric cars are disposable single-use items like plastic bottles so they're going to be dumped in the ocean. And then you're not going to be worrying about micro plastics in your blood you're going to be worrying about cadmium.

Electric vehicles are an environmental disaster that you just haven't realized yet because you're too busy virtue signaling.

So you just switch from oil to coal and natural gas because no stupid windmills are going to produce the amount of energy you need.

This is a simple concept will, and you're missing it because your virtue signals.

Electric cars are backward. The US abandoned them in the 1910s because they were crap and inexpensive. If they were these in magical Jesus cars that could drive on water like you seem to think they are that's what we would all be driving. Nothing is new right now. All of this tech that is on these machines has been around for 70 years. And electric cars have been around for 150 years.

If they were better you wouldn't need government subsidies you wouldn't need your stupid little virtue signals.

People didn't need to be subsidized or virtue signaled at to replace their horse and buggy with a car. It was Superior.

The reason why you need laws to force your stupid religion on other people it's because you like something that is crappier. It is a worse product a more useless product. If it wasn't there wouldn't be lots full of them rotting away.

 

This is a religious belief for them. The organizations that tricks them into this nonsense are their prophets.