What the hell is the Greek People's Problem?

Ooh. An insult. Nice one.

You didn't answer my question, Iolo. Who provided the tools and equipment with which to make the car?

Did that person enter into an agreement to assist in the manufacturing of that car in return for a wage?

Presuming you have the honesty and veracity to answer my question, I will - in a show of good faith - answer your question in advance:

The workers who made the tools and equipment are in the same position that the worker who made the car is: they too required someone else to provide for them additional tools and equipment, and they then went to work willingly, at a pre-agreed upon wage.

Your attempt to deflect is really just circular reasoning. You still have to answer the basic question put before you.

You have not established the crime of stealing by any stretch. Any rudimentary understanding of debate teaches that your claim of 'stealing' is the premise, and must not be included within the argument.

You are being challenged on your claim that what is taking place is stealing.

Ad hominems aside, apparently my arguments are sharp enough to cut yours to ribbons, as you seem wholly unable to address them.

 

Workers, obviously. ARe you on drugs or what?

Those persons were forced to work for a thief, like everyone else, as you know. All con-men provide some con - that is how they do their thieving. According to their belief, he who does not work shall not eat, so let 'em starve, as they have starved and murdered so many decent human beings, and you can stop posting your fatuous chapel-schoolmaster trash as if it meant something. If you can't manage Marx try the classical economists, Ricardo and so on, and stop wasting people's time with your prating.
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Smaller Governments and smaller Entitlement Classes are the logical ways forward for Greece and many other European Nations. This can also be said of the U.S. too.

 

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Get a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing job because it's obvious you never had one, but neither did Marx or Engels so I'm not surprised. Seems to be a common trait among those who proselytize for "the worker", yet never having had a job in their lives. But then I guess Demagoguery was always it's own employment.

 

Get a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing job because it's obvious you never had one, but neither did Marx or Engels so I'm not surprised. Seems to be a common trait among those who proselytize for "the worker", yet never having had a job in their lives. But then I guess Demagoguery was always it's own employment.[/QUOTE]

Yea i find this to be the case most often too. They seem to come up with these nutter theories while sitting on their couches,hitting their bongs,and playing video games. Very few of these Marxist Revolutionary wannabes even know what work is. They know they heard about it a few times but they've never actually done it. Can't take them too seriously. I know i don't.

 

Makes sense. Marx and Engels were opium addicts.

 

No, it is more like blaming crack dealers for crack epidemics, a subtle but significant difference.

 

The Constitution was created to ensure the state promoted no religion and to protect citizens from persecution by religious people.

I believe in individual and freedom espoused in the Constitution.

The religious right has been forcing their beliefs on others by lobbying for laws based on religious beliefs both in the present and past.

This is against the spirit of the constitution and the pre-eminence of the US.

 

I think you may be more right than you intended. The real problem is that the people are working for the government. Literally. Almost 40% of the nations work force have a comfy state desk job with life long pensions. The government cant create jobs no more than it can create prosperity.

 

The short answer to the question is that too many German and French banks have too much to say about going to fiscal austerity as a means to ensure their loans never get paid down. The IMF/World Bank use of the Washington Consensus, or "shock doctrine" if you will, is almost always a failure.

 

Not really .. no. Free market forces eventually destroy the system they are unleashed upon if not kept in check .. this is one of the lessons of history.

It was this assumption that caused the Pons-Fleishman model to fail. If you read the writings of folks that actually understand market forces .. Soros for example .. will tell you that the markets trend towards "disequilibrium" rather than equilibrium.

If the government would have allowed AIG to fail .. you would likely not have power when you flicked on your light switch today, or at least it would be rationed. Civil unrest would be everywhere and your way of life would be gone .. done.. finished.

I agree that this was due to in large part to the bad policies of the Bush administration, but there are other factors as well.

 

The problem in greece is that they need SHARIA

 

LOL!! How does this guy get his first post up, and it took me a week!

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, be an active member!

 

Solution found, please close thread mod

 

And one that does not exist in reality...

 

Why would a Greek Orthodox nation institute Muslim law?

 

Are you a baby, or what? Class governments impose class control: no working people have choice under capitalism, as you know, though some ducks quack because they fear thinking.

 

Can anyone understand this?

 

Yes - ducks (and - presumably - drakes) plus extreme right Americans who understand it as well as they understand anything.

 

I have a saying:

"You can choose to IGNORE the math, but in the end you CAN NOT AVOID it!"

Governments that expand their role by offering social services fail to manage their balance sheet. While I am not a socialist (not for the U.S. anyway) - I can't deny that if one manages a balance sheet and decides to offer limited services for a fee - that it can do so and maintain a balanced budget (without deficits and only short-term debt).

However most (if not all) supporters of Social Programs (be it well-fare, public education, social security, socialized medicine, etc) - focus ONLY on the ideological and moral significance and IGNORE THE MATH.

Governments that decide to provide services are now in business. They need to monitor and maintain the ever so important formula.

Revenue (Taxes) - Costs (government spending) = Margins (Deficits/Surplus)

The government MUST monitor their margins and productivity level for two very important reasons:

1. Are they effective in providing those services?
2. Are they able to maintain FLAT or Surplus margins?

These two questions are rarely asked or answered.

Eventually you end up like Greece, or New Jersey (just took at 2.5 billion bridge loan), or Minnesota (government shutdown for 6 days so far), or our own Federal Government (about to vote on raising the debt ceiling).

In ALL these situations they have IGNORED the ever so important MATH part of the problem.

Until the men and women - whom we trust to be accountable, responsible, and liable - face the MATH part of the equation and pull their ideological heads out of their butts (on both the right and left) - we will forever be facing a tipping point of failure or a devaluation of the currency to try to (unsuccessful) inflate our way out of this problem.

No country in the history of the world has devalued (or inflate) their way to prosperity.

Greece problem is far from being solved, you only have to do the math to figure that out.

We in this nation are facing the same problem.

I am certainly not debating the pros/cons of Social Programs (that is a separate ideological debate) - I am arguing that if a nation decides to take the social services path - to ignore the math component means eventual failure!

Math will always trump ideology!

"Hey Greece, DO THE MATH!"