Romney is a Mormon... Is He "Christian"?

Without exception, all the presidents I have voted for have been "self-proclaimed" Christians (although I do not believe most of them were) who during the election run, stated that they would not put their religion above the nation. I would NEVER vote for any Christian who said he would.

 

Wow, you must have had a bad experience with one or some Mormons in your past! Do you have some interesting experiences to share?

 

Well let's see;
　
　
We could start with the very first experience with a Mormon, a sweet little lady that was my first teacher in the community. She asked the basic questions, where ya from, how many brothers and sister do you have, what does your dad do for a living, and everything was going well until she asked what religion are you. When I told her that she turned into the demonic vile creature she obviously was, told me to go sit in the corner with the other heathens, two Baptists, and three Mexican kids who were Catholic, keep you trap shut and I really don't care what you do just leave me and the rest of the class alone.
　

Or maybe the time I was yanked out from under a Mormon kid who outweighed me by 100 lbs was pummeling me, on the side walk. He was sitting on my back punching me in the head as my face bounced off the side walk. I was never so glad to see a teacher, and he was screaming and hollering at me, as he took me (???) to the principals office for a swat. I would have gladly taken three to get that idiot off of me. To this day i have no idea what set him off, other than most of them were psychos, and fights were a daily occurrence. My dad went to the school and let's just say after the dust settled I wasn't swatted again for getting beat up for no reason.
　
　
Or maybe when they (Mormon city counsel) condemned the Church our family went to. They told the preacher that the water would be turned off until it was repaired by an approved plumber (one of the only two Mormon in the town), who were constantly busy, or too busy to help the preacher get his water turned back on. At the end of the 30 days they graciously gave him to make the mysterious repairs, they (the Mormons) made him an offer on the property. They offered him enough to relocate him an his family, or threatened to take the property and leave them with nothing so he took the deal. When he took the last remaining personal items out of the Church, the man from the city, the "inspector" (also Mormon), Turned the water back on, and it became the new youth center. They moved ping pong table and pool tables in and that Saturday they were open for business. Wasn't anything wrong with the water, except the city put a lock on the meter.
　
　
Or maybe at the high school prom where anybody who wasn't Mormon had to be frisked at the door for illegal contraband. What a sight that was. Kids getting out of limos in tuxedoes and fancy ballroom gowns, getting frisked at the door. Just the kinda memories everybody wants to remember about their school days.
　
I could go on and on, but let's just say, the main body of Mormons in Arizona and Utah are a bunch of scumbags. Read their history, the only thing an Apache was scared of was the Mormons. Where do you think they got all the new blood in the old days. They killed settlers and took their children too raise as their own. Mountain Meadows Massacre was not the exception to this rule, it was business as usual. This was simply the biggest mass murder that was known about, by the Mormons. They haven't changed that much since then, and the cult is above all the top of their priorities, period.
　
　
　
You know that the Mormons financed the mafia to build Vegas and they still get a cut from the gambling, boozing, whoring etc..., but that doesn't keep them from condemning "other" people for using the place they are responsible for and made possible so they could cash in. Organized criminals of the highest caliber.

 

Do you have a link supporting those claims?

 

It’s common knowledge the Mormons were instrumental in financing Vegas with the mafia and still have a chunk of the pie. 12% of the population of Vegas is Mormon and they are there to protect the Church’s investment.


Vegas was originally a Mormon settlement and the Mormon Fort is a museum there today. They abandoned the site in the 1800’s due to the Indian raids they could no longer contend with, and they went back to Utah.
　
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Las_Vegas
　
　

　
　
http://mountainmeadowsmassacre.com/
　
　
　
　

　
　

 

So are you a Mormon Mac? You seem awfully defensive??

 

I live in Southeastern Idaho as a Methodist and I can attest to the cultural hardship that is caused by a majority-Mormon community. It happens. You pretty much have to see it to believe it, but it happens.

However, when it comes to whether Mormons are Christians or not, it would be hypocritical for me to say that they are oppressive in large groups, ergo not Christian.

 

Your link says mormon financiers were there, not the church itself. It isn't surprising that individual mormons from the church were involved with the financing of Vegas; Utah is near Vegas.

It should be fairly obvious why 12% of the population of Vegas is Mormon, and it isn't to "protect the Church's investment." You haven't even established the church made the investment in Vegas.

 

I don't follow the second paragraph.

 

From your link about the massacre.

Was the Mormon Church responsible for the killings or did local Mormons act independently?

Evidence suggests that church president Brigham Young was not responsible or even aware of the Mountain Meadows Massacre before it happened. Assuming this is true, and there's no strong evidence to the contrary, one can safely say that responsibility for the massacre rests with local Mormons, not the church itself.

Doesn't sound like it is a church policy to massacre families.

 

Appealing to logic to evaluate the veracity of your claims = being defensive?

Indeed I am a Mormon.

 

Mac;

Here’s one that says Mormon banks, of which the Church owns.
　
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Las_Vegas
　
　
　

　
Here is the history of the Church owned bank that helped finance Vegas.
　
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Zions-Bancorporation-Company-History.html
　

　
　
　
　
　
The Church always seems to come out unscathed as blame always seems to get misdirected someplace else. The Church is highly involved in world finances and politics, even George W. Bush has political ties to the Church. Of course you will never accept the reality of the situation. Were you born into the church or were you indoctrinated?
　
http://childbrides.org/politics_scoop_Bush_and_the_mormons.html
　

　
http://books.google.com/books?id=zhRyput1LlUC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=Mormon+banker+Parry+Thomas&source=bl&ots=0LY7rvbKpW&sig=Qn8OldesFhNBt6J9m_RGSelC9AE&hl=en&ei=mv5UTrPAKaGxsAKg5a26Bw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Mormon%20banker%20Parry%20Thomas&f=false
　
Here’s a good book to read about the involvement/influence of what was referred to as the “Mormon Mafia”. The heirs of Bingham Young who were politically involved in everything from the school board to the county commissioner to the gaming commission itself, throughout southern Nevada. Anybody who doesn’t believe the Church was involved in the financing and direct controlling of the early development of Las Vegas is either in denial or an idiot.

 

Mac;

No it sounds like they used a scapegoat to draw attention away from the Church. The Church's policy was to do anything that allowed the Church to succeed even if it meant killing innocent people, including their own. This is how they brought new blood into the fold. Kill the least important members of the family, and take the children to raise as their own. There is absolutely no other reason for such a thing. They just got caught in this situation, most likely because of the number of the murdered victims.


Lee was that scapegoat, in his last words he condemns Brigham Young and admits he was falsely accused and a sacrificial lamb for the good of the one and only, Brigham Young and for the honor of the Church.
　
　
　
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/Ftrials/mountainmeadows/leeexecution.html
　
　
　

　
　
　
At least the Church was kind enough to wait until he was near death anyway, 20 years after the fact to execute him.
　
　
　
Both the Gunnison massacre and the Mountain Meadows Massacre was the work of the Church’s Danites “Avenging Angels”, who directly took their orders from one person, Brigham Young.

 

I was under the impression that this debate was about whether Mormons should or are popularly considered "Christian." The Mormons I know consider themselves as such, and I have no problem with it. So I'm not sure what BuckNaked's point really is, but if he's suggesting that Mormons shouldn't be considered Christian because they sometimes do not-so-awesome things to other people, I would strongly urge everybody to remember the Crusades and the Holocaust.

P.S. You're dealing with a blatant attack on your religion quite admirably.

 

I'm showing that the Mormon church has a history of dirty deeds, and that they claim to be one thing when they actually are something very different. Such as their claim to be family oriented. If you are in their family (fold) they are but if you are not then you are an outsider and not welcome in their Church or their rituals, including marriage, until you swear allegiance to their Church. That to me doesn't sound very Christian.
　
　
This doesn't mean that many of the followers are not good people it merely shows a Church with a history of blatant hypocrisy, and you have noted not much different than any other organized Church or religion. They believe in Jesus and also believe Jesus was married to several women to justify their own "desire" to have numerous brides to expand their numbers in the early Church. Many have abandoned those ways and others have branched off to continue the practice. Does this alone make them/either not Christian in their beliefs? NO. In many cases they did what was done because they thought it was necessary for their survival. But that doesn’t make it right.
　
　
I have seen the way Mormons govern communities and I would never vote for one for these reasons. I would also never vote for any other religious nut job who openly couldn't keep his religion separate from his/her job. It's not the duty of the government to dictate religious points of views and impose them on everybody else for their own good. That's why the constitution say's it's not allowed. For good reason, it's been tried before and it doesn't work.
　
　
I really don't care what Mac wants to believe or follow as long as he isn't imposing his beliefs on others we'll get along just fine. I haven't disrespected his belief only pointed out the history of the Church he happens to belong too, and my own experiences with them. If he wishes to use the information or file it away in the deleted section of his brain, I see no problem. Others may not have heard of their history, so I feel impelled to share.
　
　
I don’t care if they consider themselves Christian or not, the majority of the people who make that claim are not and their actions clearly show it isn't factual according to the words of Jesus. But I would never elect a Mormon to public office, based on the actions of their Church. The individual might be an innocent party, but in the shape this country is in today, anyone who is questionable will not get my vote.

 

I don't mind it. I'm quite at peace that some people don't like mormons. If those are the experiences he has with the church, then it is no surprise that BuckNaked has his paradigm of mormons based on those experiences. The actions Buck described as performed by some mormons are certainly not Christian in nature, which is disappointing, especially since I know what is taught at Church and within the scriptures.

Further, I don't take offense at his point of view because I know plenty of people, mormons and non-mormons, who are abrasive, or who do unkind things. I'm aware that all people, including mormons, don't always act in a loving or appropriate manner toward their fellow man, even though they may believe differently than they act.

For myself I have found the church's teachings to be quite in tune with the teachings of Christ and I never have felt I left church without discussing Christ's teachings a great deal.

 

Now, we know, he or she is the only one who can decide who is Christian and who is not!

 

Pleeeaaase?! Doesn't matter what anybody on a anonymous forum thinks. It's up to you to pick and choose what facts are pertinent and makes sense to decide for yourself.
　
If you think people who put on a big front one day a week for the acceptance of their peers, and then pick and choose what commandments they decide are right for them or not the rest of the week, and determine that is Christian behavior, so be it.
　
　
If there is a God, it is the only thing that will make that determination.


Thoughts??

 

Doesn't matter..Now that a tall Texan entered the race.

Romney is toast.
Bachmann irrelevant.

Christian right has won again.

and we have all lost.

 

and if you're right, we just might see another four years of Obama.

 

Remember these last 2 post..

Obama wants a PERRY or Paul to carry the GOP torch.
That will drive the disenchanted gays..Mexicans..young democrats and union workers back to his camp.

Many moderate conservatives will stay home ...
Independents as well.

game over ..
Obama wins.

 

It depends on your interpretation of the term. Technically, "Christian" covers all sects of Christianity, but usually nowadays, "Christian" refers to all forms of Protestantism, which are pretty similar to each other (at least from what it seems). Catholics, Orthodox(es?), Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. don't refer to themselves simply as "Christian". Though, I still voted yes, as he is within the Christian religion.

 

You've been had again. The "neo-con artists"/republicans have won again. Gullible fools are already turning their backs on the basic premise of the t-party for the second coming of Bush.

 

While I voted yes, the more precise answer is "It's not my position as a Christian to judge if others are Christian or not." If Romney thinks he's a Christian, he's a Christian.

 

Christians believe in Jesus Christ.
Mormons believe in Jesus Christ.
Mormons are therefore Christians.