Why are OWS folks so angry?

what do you mean? why should I care if you want to take someone else's money? well because I believe in personal liberty and sound property rights. today you take their money, at some point down the line it might be my money.

 

Originally Posted by proof-hunter
"Let me See, you know that corporations can't screw the people without government involvement,"


Originally Posted by OmegaEnigma
"No, I do NOT know that,"

Why? Because you can’t stand looking at the truth, that the big, bad government is NOT the total and absolute source of all human corruption that so many people here have made it into in their twisted little minds?

Or that not everyone automatically accepts it as such? That some people can see those very foundations of deceit and decay present in a world completely absent or devoid of government involvement?

I know this statement would be played off as an example of ignorance on my part, but it exemplifies the extremist values of the anti-government mind set displayed by the Tea Party and right wing diehards.

Who is to really blame in matters of corruption? The corrupted, or the corruptor? I say both, but only one has a second, more vital function, and thus, is more deserving of preservation.
We need a government, we do NOT need rich people.
The government needs to be corrected, but that cannot happen until everyone has equal say and access to the government.

Capitalism is the byproduct of democracy, there would be no capitalism if there were no democracy, so democracy needs to be reestablished first, and that requires the vast majority to get involved and cut off the forces that are creating the problem. The corruptors are the source of the problem.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho1x2yPtGak"]a true look at the corruption of wall street and the us government - YouTube[/ame]

 

You Do realize that once thew number becomes so large (as it did under Bush), it eats itself?

Maybe if Newt got a BJ prior to the end of his multiple marriages, he wouldn't have had to divorce his dying wife on her death bed...Oh wait....he DID.
Both!

Your numbers are also screwed. You forgot to add in the cost of the Iraq invasion the the flunky kept off the books (I know you right wingers are big on accounting tricks but...)

 

But you must admit that Reps love spending just as much as Dems, but seemingly "have seen the light" when the tea party voices grew louder. Now they pretend to make less spending their own idea to regain power, until it all dies down once again, and the uncontrolled spending begins/continues anew.
DC needs a complete overhaul. Lets face it people, we can't be partisan when all of them are corrupt.
As for businesses...of course they do what's right for business, to keep it afloat.
Keeping it afloat is what creates surplus, jobs.
Even on Wallstreet and in CEO land, we need to look at both sides of the issue.
Its what the OWS crowd sadly seems to be incapable of. Demanding, while refusing to look at the entire picture, the inability to think through a concept from conception to end, is why these people have no credibility.
What's more, they, themselves, at led by hypocrites cheering them on.
How sad is that?

 

What is this "pretend" BS? The last four years the Dems have run up $4,465 trillion in deficits and the 4 years before that the Republicans ran up deficits of $1,141 trillion. Were they pretending to overspend 75% less? Both spent more than they should have but the Dems overspent at a 4 times higher rate.

Hopefully the tea party WILL have a greater and greater influence on POLITICIANS. Because the tea party is NOT interested in Republican politicians, it is interested in politicians that will stop the DC insanity. Democrats were stupid to vilify the tea party. If Democrat politicians promised to bring sanity back to DC, and did it, they would have the support of the real tea party too. En masse, Democrats went another way.

 

Aha, so that’s what your remark was getting at, and I guess it’s safe to say you were not being sarcastic on the matter?

Not that it will probably do a bit of good, but I will explain the finer points of “Personal Liberty”. Your personal liberty ends where my nose begins.

No, that’s too simple, right? Let’s try it another way.
Money does NOT equal the right to tread, tromp, stomp, intrude upon, or harm other peoples personal and civil liberties.

In other words, just because you are or may one day become rich & wealthy, that money should not grant you the power to restrict, control, or manipulate other people's liberty, EVER! Wealth is not a free ticket to get away with murder or crime, it is not a pass that allows you to by way of action directly or indirectly threaten the safety and welfare of other people, no matter how poor they are.

Lets use this as an example.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqqd4QcahN8"]Ohio Sheriff: 48 Exotic Animals Killed in All - YouTube[/ame]


This individual had enough money to own his own private collection of exotic wild animals. For whatever reason he went off his rocker and let all the animals out and took his own life. The animals then became a danger to everyone in the vicinity and wound up being killed by the cops in a massive slaughter fest to preserve the safety of the citizens.

The damage that this one individual did to people and animals who had nothing to do with it was fairly minimal compared to what it could have been, except for the horrible death of so many pricless creatures that can not be replaced on this world, but when all was said and done, was it right or justified that 1 individual could do so much harm simply because he had the money to do it?

If you say “yes”, then that is like saying any bomber is justified in blowing something up simply because he had enough money to pay for the bomb.

Wall Street barons and elite wealthy people are also causing harm to innocent bystanders by engaging in unethical business practices, manipulating political forces in their favor, impacting laws, and Jerry rigging the entire system to become overlords of humanity as a whole. Their reckless use of money is effecting everyone else‘s “personal liberty“, so it needs to be stopped ASAP.

You want to be rich? Go ahead, be my guest, but if you use your money in such a way that I or other people are suffering, we will get you. You have an obligation to be responsible for every effect you cause with your money.

 

I mean that you say that it's impossible to assume that the people "working" on Wall Street are greedy, but you still assume that the OWS people are greedy. The ones actually raking in money hand over fist, them we shouldn't call greedy, but people who don't have a ton of money, those are the ones we should assume are all about greed?

Is that logical?

 

Listen, if you're going to divide the protesters into liberals and *********s, change to a more fitting name

 

So your stand is that ALL businesspeople are ruthless, greedy, criminals, intent on hurting everybody without wealth. That this ruthless greedy cabal has been intentionally screwing all the people all the time for generation after generation?

Is that it?

 

" You forgot to add in the cost of the Iraq invasion the the flunky kept off the books"
Here you reveal both a massive continuing liberal LIE AND your total ignorance of our government.

Not one penny of the Iraq war was EVER 'kept off the books" as liberals like to lie about. Nothing was ever kept off the books, nor can it be kept off the books. What lying liberals have done is to claim that funds that were "OFF BUDGET" were off the books and never paid. The fact is that the costs of the Iraq war, year by year were included in both the annual deficit reports and in the increasing of the NATIONAL DEBT, year by year. OFF BUDGET simply means they were not included in the Federal Budget that Congress is required to pass for each Fiscal Year.

What makes this lie double funny and triple STUPID of liberals is that with majority control of BOTH Houses of Congress for FY 2008,9,10, and 11. The liberal Democrat Congress NEVER passed a Federal Budget for FY 2010 and FY 2011. and the Democrat controlled Senate has YET to pass a budget for FY 2012 which started 10/01/2011. And their budget for FY 2009 was passed months late and far into that FY. It is just stupid to the power of 10 that Democrat liberals would even mention that Bush spent some money , WITH CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, that was not included in that years budget. When with total control of Congress, you have not passed a Federal Budget in over 3 years! In a time of fiscal crisis and a down economy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NO BUDGET! Deficits? About an average of $1,300 TRILLION per year. Deficit under Bush for the OFF BUDGET Iraq War? $412 billion. Liberals, no budget 3X $412B=$1,236 T More than 3 times higher deficits. The $412 billion was the largest deficit with a Republican controlled Congress. $458 billion FY 2008, was the smallest deficit by a Democrat controlled Congress.

 

Hardly.
Look, I’m not accusing every single business man or inherently wealthy individual of any crime or misuse of their money, but you have to understand that when a small handful of the top 1 or even 2% get to live by different rules and laws simply because they ARE wealthy, it’s not going to be tolerated for ever.

My “stand” is that most wealthy people;
A) Have no real concept of their own money & wealth in relation to the average person, how it effects everyone else, and when it is wrong to be hoarding and greedy.
B) Do not care who they hurt or how it effects others.
C) May even be cruel enough to deliberately shape the system into it’s current and progressively worse status.

Now lets take the case of John Flemming for a great example;

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW2VW-Z1M94"]GOP Rep. John Flemming (R-LA) Whines About Making $400K - YouTube[/ame]

This guy is actually whining about only having $400K left over. The vast majority of Americans are making less than $26K a year, his “left over” income would provide everything for 15 low income families! He claims it cost him $200k just to feed his own family, so what is he feeding them? Caviar & sushi off of naked girls? And he want’s sympathy?

That’s just one tiny example. Many CEOs of big companies make as much as $14 MILLION, the guy who actually got paid $15 MILLION could have paid for 577 low income families! Can you honestly tell me that 1 individual is worth the lives of that many people?

THAT is where I and a lot of people draw the line. That is simply wrong.

 

Oh maybe you misunderstood me. I think everyone is self interested- call it greedy it makes no difference. It's the interest in other peoples money that I find repulsive.

 

One idiot ranting about one side of the coin is of no more importance than hundreds of idiots trespassing on private property and ranting about another side of the coin.

I'd say the percentage of rich people that would intentionally hurt anyone is smaller by far than the number of teen age drivers that would intentionally hurt anyone. Both happen, both are wrong. both will continue to happen.

I'm rich. I was an avid hunter, and a good one, an excellent marksman. I loved to hunt any game, large or small. I went to Vietnam. I have not hunted since, I don't even like to kill a pesky insect. That's the only effect Vietnam had on me. Would I still kill a human that was intent on hurting me or mine? Without a thought or hesitation. Would I hurt anyone that means me no harm, NEVER.

 

Well at least my “rant” is about real political factors the effect me and everyone I know, but I don’t know what the hell your rant is even about.
Hunting? Vietnam? Trespassing? You want to kill someone? Seriously dude, get some help.

If you are trying to scare me or something, please don’t waste your time.
My neighbor was in Vietnam, he’s a tough old bird, he agrees with the OWS movement, as I suppose a lot of veterans do.
I’m sure there are plenty of them s who can shoot just as good as you can. So what?

Now, about being rich, maybe that is your problem, because clearly there is nothing rational coming out of your terminal. Most of all, like most rich people, you seem to have a total lack of compassion or empathy towards people who are not rich, and that’s how it gets ugly.

The holiday season is coming, use some of your wealth to buy the story of “A Christmas Carol”, there are lots of versions of it, but I recommend something classic, maybe just read the original story by Charles Dickens, and maybe you too can become a human being some day?
I honestly hope for it.
Otherwise you will just be this guy. LOL!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxUb27gN5mQ"]Sammon Says Scrooge is a Good Republican.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

 

Your drooling envy was already understood.

 

You wish.
“envy” of what? A paranoid, hostile individual who cannot engage in a comprehensive conversation by producing any fact based arguments and only calling the other person an “idiot”?

Still you wanted to bring the veteran issue up, so here is an example of how our country treat veterans who joint in the OWS protests.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lbbWAgBy7E&skipcontrinter=1"]Veteran shot in the face by police projectile at Occupy Oakland protests - YouTube[/ame]

Not good enough, how about women?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwL7jCL88Tw&feature=related"]Oakland Police Beat a Woman at Occupy Oakland Raid 10-25-11 - YouTube[/ame]

If what they are doing is so pointless, than why is it so important for government officials to stop them?

 

The drooling envious idiots are disobeying lawful orders from police and trespassing on private property.

I'm a veteran. It does not empower me to riot or break any of our laws. If I am stupid enough to engage in unlawful activity, I expect to be both arrested and prosecuted. And possibly injured. A veteran, if he is one, DOES know that. The person in the video was hurt, somehow. And is alleged to be a veteran. False reporting would not be a new trick.

These exact same kind of idiots spit on me when I returned from Vietnam. I can attest that the projectiles were spit and that I am a veteran. How was that treatment in your estimation? EXCELLENT, GOOD, FAIR, POOR?

NOW those spitting hating idiots ARE the ones making money in the Wall Street offices, and probably feeling a little nostalgic about the free loving protest days. But they like the big bucks better.

 

wouldn't you be angry if you were living in a tent and it was snowing outside? Ever try to light up a bowl when it is windy? (*)(*)(*)(*) they should have started sooner....maybe may or june..

 

Doesn't really matter WHY they're so angry. Not even sure they are. It's a big party for young people who are fortunate enough to have parents support them while they enjoy an extended playdate in the park with all their little friends.

A more important question is who's encouraging the lil darlins? There's no such thing as a grassroots liberal movement... somebody had to get the word out.

Oh wait, somebody did. And the kiddie's came a runnin.

​

Fortunately, their targeted audience has short attention spans. Mama's basement will look real good after a few nights in the snow. Time to get home and start making out those Christmas lists!

​

 

The OWS rabble just proves there is no limit to how stupid people can be, or how many can be stupid at any time.

Doesn't mean they aren't dangerous. Mobs can get violent at any time for less than no reason.

 

Why I support Occupy Wall Street
Here’s what I am upset about…
Large corporations using public space to ship their goods while trying to get out of paying taxes, using unfair labor practices in other countries because they can’t get away with it here, corporate lobbyists having a say in laws by using their donations in exchange for government alliances (if this weren’t true there would be no high paid corporate lobbyists) while the people do not have the representation that they need, an unsustainable economy that bases it’s idea of economic health on growth rather than stability and more evenly distributed wealth. Yes, if these businesses failed a lot of people would loose a lot of money due to peoples pensions, 401ks, and savings being invested in the stock market . I consider that very unfortunate and know that these people were told that it would be sound investment, but I do not support the bail outs. That is the risk of a free market.
The stock market puts distance between the owner of a company and the company’s practices creating a company who’s only goals are to make money without any moral code. All that the owners see are numbers, not the faces of people being abused by this corrupt system. Why would it be in our best interest to support a company who’s only financial ties with our country are through high level management and investors? Why is it the American trend to cut out all labor from our own country? I realize that ill informed and desperate consumers are a big part of the problem. I also see this as a downward spiral. The less jobs in the U.S. the more desperate the consumers, the more Walmart sells (for example). Yes, these products that you buy for a ridiculously low amount of money give money straight to a company that doesn’t support jobs in the U.S. and supports unfair labor practices elsewhere. Why would they if their only goal is to make money? They find the cheapest labor possible both over seas and in their retail stores. They’ve even come up with a way to use one cashier for four registers (i.e. self check out). This is exactly why those prices are low.
The purpose of a democratic government is to give everyone an equal voice and to create laws and legislation that supports the majority of Americans. The majority of Americans are not CEOs, they are the ones who lost their jobs because the CEOs decided that it was in their company’s best financial interest to send work over seas and pay well under minimum wage for labor. My thought… Why do we sell anything in this country that harms the bulk of our population not to mention the population over seas and the environment?
I’m not angry because some people are rich. I am angry because some of the richest people in this country got there through the abuse of other people and that my neighbor can work three times harder than any CEO and always live from pay check to pay check. I am angry that most of the Americans in jail are in there for drugs that are no worse than alcohol and are from low income families, that Americans from wealthy families can afford better representation in our court systems and get charges dropped more often, that in order to make money one must have money, that only the wealthy can afford a good education, good food, and good healthcare. I am angry that there is so much pollution in this world because of large companies shipping products overseas, producing products in countries that don’t have strict environmental laws, and using insane amounts of inexpensive petroleum based packaging just because it is cheaper for them. I am angry that the government is not only allowing these unjust labor practices, but also supporting them though legislation such as free trade, implementing laws that make it unprofitable to have a small, sustainable business, and granting large companies patents on our food supplies which they did not invent. I am angry that corporations control our scientific studies, education, healthcare, and the media by contributing money to them. Why should we only learn what a corporation thinks it best for us to know. Pharmaceutical companies should not be able to control what our doctors prescribe to us while other studies are being ignored because they don’t support profit for these companies. I am angry that conservatives have brainwashed Christians to think that they are the moral ones when they support all of this and that news doesn’t have to be factual.
I want this country to live up to it’s potential because I love this country. I do believe that it is the government that we are trying to influence with this movement. I am a hard working farmer/educator. I am happy with the amount of money that I am making though most people in the U.S. would consider me poor. I am happy to pay taxes. I have seen true poverty and I know people in the 1%. I am not your stereotype. I see corruption in the system and I think that this movement is exposing some of that to the public.

 

That's a good question since most of them are college students who have never had to, at least yet, make it in the real world. They are still living with the help of their parents, but they have been totally indoctrinated by the progressive education system.

 

I take it you are among those who didn’t get an education then? Clearly ignorance is a blissful state.
For those who can actually read and understand what is going on, I offer some clear proof that this individual has no clue.

The people who are in the OWS crowd are from every walk of life, including small business owners, people who have or had jobs as doctors, lawyers, construction workers, teachers, fire fighters, even a few Tea Party types, and just about everything else that is American, so this concept they are people who live at home with their parents only applies to a fraction of that crowd.

Seriously, if you really care about this country and what is happening to it, you would NOT be against them. If you are against them, then you are the enemy, and you deserve the fall that awaits you.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O_Ao9w1u7c"]Occupy Wall Street Commercial - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-9X3IleBQ"]THE BEST VIDEO ON -OCCUPY THE WORLD #OWS #OccupyWallStreet - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Kr1lHgggU"]OWS-MISSION 99.mov - YouTube[/ame]

 

OK lemme see if I got this straight

You hate it when businesses make money, support waste and inefficiency, and you want other people's money. Conrgats comrade, you are now a liberal. And this is exactly why I will never be one.

You want to eat off of other people's plates after they did all the hard work. You insist that because you have no marketable skills that companies should put themselves and the rest of their employees, suppliers and logistical staff at risk. How about you grow up and take care of yourself? Why is it beneath you to learn a real skill and be self sufficient rather than try to steal other people's wealth?

 

Exactly those parents should of thrown them kids out when they were 6 months. You can crawl you can fend for yourself young man/woman. Them kids could of pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps and known the value of hard work and the dollar then.