Goldstone: Israeli apartheid claims are "inaccurate slander against Israel"

Ah, so you opposed the invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, did you, and you are actively opposing US support for attacking Syria and Iran ?

 

That is correct! Not what you expected I am sure! BTW, your sarcasm is noted.

In a world where I could make the rules the USA would never venture outside the western hemisphere in a military capacity. Sadly none of our presidents obeyed me. Heck I even had to go do stuff for him! In any case you are correct, I am opposed to ALL war except for instances of demonstrable self defense, and I have said that many times in this forum. Many many many MANY times!!! There is a difference between the real world and what I wish for. After mistakes are made and we invade countries or other countries invade us we have to deal with the hand of cards we have. THAT is what I comment on, NOT what I would consider the IDEAL. So again I wish for PEACE and for the west to be isolated however now that my and your leaders have screwed up our ideal world we still have opinions of what someone dealt us. As per below;

Iraq ; I somewhat supported the first invasion because we were invited by Kuwait. Of course everyone knows that such things are designed and have been since Cain smacked Able. Ideally if I were the rule maker I would Isolate the entire western hemisphere and let the rest of the world go down the drain if they chose to, however I wish every nation well. War would be a last resort and used only for self defense. But I do not make the rules.

Iraq 2. I never supported that war.

Lybya; Lybia was a popular uprising that was supported by two lawyers…that figures. We allegedly supported who we felt was the lesser of the evils, the people. kadafi was a bot fly that looked human and I did not cry a tear when he was dispatched to his final fate and judgment. As they say hair today gone tomorrow eh? Still all war is horrific and I would only choose war as a final choice when the enemy is at the gate and all other options failed.

Lastly if Iran attempts to develop a nuclear weapon (which I feel they already possess) I would support taking that capacity away for the same reason I would not allow a escapee from Belleview to possess grenades or machine guns. Sometimes those moral ethical judgments will not please everyone. That is why the superior military of the USA and the west will ultimately define middle east reality. It’s the final and ultimate option and truly defines a nations borders etc. Some things never change.

Rev A

 

So what exactly do you want Amnesty to do? The whole point of organisations like Amnesty, to take one example, is to lobby and campaign for human rights, and to expose those who seek to usurp those rights. Would you prefer they didn't expose people's dirty little secrets-especially those of countries where you have an interest? Would you prefer that Amnesty do nothing and not make the world aware of the plight of Gilad Shalit, for example, as they did?

If it weren't for groups like Amnesty who will do exposing; the guilty party? I don't think so-and to expect that is naive in the extreme.

 

Bahrain:

Bahrain's tiny Jewish community, mostly the Jewish descendants of immigrants who entered the country in the early 1900s from Iraq, numbered 600 in 1948. In the wake of the November 29, 1947, U.N. Partition vote, demonstrations against the vote in the Arab world were called for December 2–5. The first two days of demonstrations in Bahrain saw rock throwing against Jews, but on December 5, mobs in the capital of Manama looted Jewish homes and shops, destroyed the synagogue, beat any Jews they could find, and murdered one elderly woman.Over the next few decades, most left for other countries, especially England; as of 2006 only 36 remained.

Egypt:

In 1948, approximately 75,000 Jews lived in Egypt. About 100 remain today, mostly in Cairo. The exodus of Egyptian Jews had begun following the 1945 Cairo pogrom, though was not significant until 1948. In June 1948, a bomb exploded in Cairo's Karaite quarter, killing 22 Jews. In July 1948, Jewish shops and the Cairo Synagogue were attacked, killing 19 Jews. Hundreds of Jews were arrested and had their property confiscated. Nearly 40% of the Jewish population of Egypt had left the country by 1950.

In 1951, the fraudulent Protocols of the Elders of Zion was translated into Arabic and promoted as an authentic historical document, fueling anti-Semitic sentiments in Egypt. In 1954, the Lavon Affair served as a pretext for further persecution of Egyptian Jews.

In October 1956, when the Suez Crisis erupted, 1,000 Jews were arrested and 500 Jewish businesses were seized by the government. A statement branding the Jews as "Zionists and enemies of the state" was read out in the mosques of Cairo and Alexandria. Jewish bank accounts were confiscated and many Jews lost their jobs. Lawyers, engineers, doctors and teachers were not allowed to work in their professions. Thousands of Jews were ordered to leave the country. They were allowed to take only one suitcase and a small sum of cash, and forced to sign declarations "donating" their property to the Egyptian government. Foreign observers reported that members of Jewish families were taken hostage, apparently to insure that those forced to leave did not speak out against the Egyptian government. Some 25,000 Jews, almost half of the Jewish community left, mainly for Europe, the United States, South America and Israel, after being forced to sign declarations that they were leaving voluntarily, and agreed with the confiscation of their assets. Similar measures were enacted against British and French nationals in retaliation for the invasion. By 1957 the Jewish population of Egypt had fallen to 15,000.

Iraq:



Iraqi Jews leaving Lod airport (Israel) on their way to ma'abara transit camp, 1951In 1948, there were approximately 150,000 Jews in Iraq. The community was concentrated in Baghdad and Basra. By 2003, there were only approximately 100 left of this previously thriving community. In 1941, following Rashid Ali's pro-Axis coup, riots known as the Farhud broke out in Baghdad in which approximately 180 Jews were killed and about 240 were wounded, 586 Jewish-owned businesses were looted and 99 Jewish houses were destroyed.

Like most Arab League states, Iraq initially forbade the emigration of its Jews after the 1948 war on the grounds that allowing them to go to Israel would strengthen that state. However, by 1949 Jews were escaping Iraq at about a rate of 1,000 a month.

Hoping to stem the flow of assets from the country, in March 1950 Iraq passed a law of one year duration allowing Jews to emigrate on condition of relinquishing their Iraqi citizenship. They were motivated, according to Ian Black, by "economic considerations, chief of which was that almost all the property of departing Jews reverted to the state treasury" and also that "Jews were seen as a restive and potentially troublesome minority that the country was best rid of." Israel was at first reluctant to absorb all the Jews, but eventually yielded and mounted an operation called "Ezra and Nehemiah" to bring as many of the Iraqi Jews as possible to Israel.

 

Libya

In 1948, about 38,000 Jews lived in Libya. A series of pogroms started in Tripoli in November 1945; over a period of several days more than 130 Jews (including 36 children) were killed, hundreds were injured, 4,000 were left homeless, and 2,400 were reduced to poverty. Five synagogues in Tripoli and four in provincial towns were destroyed, and over 1,000 Jewish residences and commercial buildings were plundered in Tripoli alone.The pogroms continued in June 1948, when 15 Jews were killed and 280 Jewish homes destroyed.

Between the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 and Libyan independence in December 1951 over 30,000 Libyan Jews emigrated to Israel. In 1967, during the Six-Day War, the Jewish population of 4,000 was again subjected to pogroms in which 18 were killed, and many more injured. The Libyan government "urged the Jews to leave the country temporarily", permitting them each to take one suitcase and the equivalent of $50. In June and July over 4,000 traveled to Italy, where they were assisted by the Jewish Agency. 1,300 went on to Israel, 2,200 remained in Italy, and most of the rest went to the United States. A few scores remained in Libya.

In 1970 the Libyan government issued new laws which confiscated all the assets of Libya's Jews, issuing in their stead 15 year bonds. However, when the bonds matured no compensation was paid. Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi justified this on the grounds that "the alignment of the Jews with Israel, the Arab nations' enemy, has forfeited their right to compensation."

Although the main synagogue in Tripoli was renovated in 1999, it has not reopened for services. The last Jew in Libya, Esmeralda Meghnagi, died in February 2002. Israel is home to about 40,000 Jews of Libyan descent, who maintain unique traditions

Gee, is it any wonder why Jews flocked to the new state of Israel?

 

Morocco:

Jewish Wedding in Morocco by Eugène Delacroix, Louvre, ParisIn Morocco the Vichy regime during World War II passed discriminatory laws against Jews; for example, Jews were no longer able to get any form of credit, Jews who had homes or businesses in European neighborhoods were expelled, and quotas were imposed limiting the percentage of Jews allowed to practice professions such as law and medicine to two percent. King Muhammad V expressed his personal distaste for these laws, and assured Moroccan Jewish leaders that he would never lay a hand "upon either their persons or property". While there is no concrete evidence of him actually taking any actions to defend Morocco's Jews, it has been argued that he may have worked behind the scenes on their behalf, though this has been refuted by local research.[67]

In June 1948, soon after Israel was established and in the midst of the first Arab-Israeli war, violent anti-Jewish riots broke out in Oujda and Djerada, leading to deaths of 44 Jews. In 1948–9, after the massacres, 18,000 Moroccan Jews left the country for Israel. Later, however, the Jewish exodus from Morocco slowed down to a few thousand a year.

Syria:

In 1947, rioters in Aleppo burned the city's Jewish quarter and killed 75 people. As a result, nearly half of the Jewish population of Aleppo opted to leave the city. In 1948, there were approximately 30,000 Jews in Syria. The Syrian government placed severe restrictions on the Jewish community, including on emigration. Over the next decades, many Jews managed to escape, and the work of supporters, particularly Judy Feld Carr, in smuggling Jews out of Syria, and bringing their plight to the attention of the world, raised awareness of their situation.


Tunisia:

In 1948, approximately 105,000 Jews lived in Tunisia. About 1,500 remain today, mostly in Djerba, Tunis, and Zarzis. Following Tunisia's independence from France in 1956, a number of anti-Jewish policies led to emigration, of which half went to Israel and the other half to France. After attacks in 1967, Jewish emigration both to Israel and France accelerated.

Looks like the Jews know when theyre not wanted.....

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Mr. R - , thank you for confirming what I've said yesterday :


The ONLY reason why Arab-Jews ( Sephardim/Mizrahi) left /were encouraged to leave their
homelands was a direct result of Zionist terrorists gangs LEHI-Stern -Irgun etc attacks - ethnic cleanings of Palestine.

The infamous "Plan D" resulted in the murderous depopulation of 369 Palestinian towns and villages by the Haganah /Irgun etc and that massacre upon massacre of Palestinian civilians in such places as Deir Yassin, al-Dawayima, Eilaboun, Jish, Ramle and Lydda are referred to in official records as "ethnic cleansing."

The odds are that Eastern Jews would have remained + continued to prosper as they've done for many centuries . Their exodus was a reaction to the Zionist plane - Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine .
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You'll learn that many were for several decades the Ashkenazim treated them as second class citizens - they were discriminated against until they became organised (Black Panthers -(Hebrew: הפנתרים השחורים‎, HaPanterim HaShhorim) were an Israeli protest movement of second-generation Jewish immigrants from Middle Eastern countries. They were one of the first organizations in Israel with the mission of working for social justice for the Mizrahi Jews. Saadia Marciano, one of the movement's founders, chose the name "Black Panthers" in 1971 when Angela Davis, one of the African American Black Panthers, came to visit Israel where she met with Marciano, who then adopted the name. They are also sometimes referred to as the Israeli Black Panthers to distinguish them from the African American group.
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Many Arab-Jews Mizrahi - were so badly treated by Israel's Ashkenazi ruling , that those who could afford it soon migrated to US /Canada / Australia etc.

LOOK - LISTEN AND LEARN .

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emq94B17zXo"]Naeim Giladi - 11-07-94 Original air date - YouTube[/ame]


Naeim Giladi (Hebrew: נעים גלעדי&#8206 (born 1929, Iraq, as Naeim Khalaschi) is an Anti-Zionist, and author of an autobiographical article and historical analysis entitled The Jews of Iraq.[1] The article later formed the basis for his originally self-published book Ben Gurion's Scandals: How the Haganah and the Mossad Eliminated Jews.


Giladi was born in 1929 to an Iraqi Jewish family and later lived in Israel and the United States.[2] Giladi describes his family as, "a large and important" family named "Haroon" who had settled in Iraq after the Babylonian exile. According to Giladi his family had owned, 50,000 acres (200 km²) devoted to rice, dates and Arab horses. They were later involved in gold purchase and purification, and were therefore given the name, 'Khalaschi', meaning 'Makers of Pure' by the Turks who occupied Iraq at the time.

He states that he joined the underground Zionist movement at age 14 without his parent's knowledge and was involved in underground activities. He was arrested and jailed by the Iraqi government at the age of 17 in 1947.

During his two years in the prison of Abu Ghraib, he was expecting to be sentenced to death for smuggling Iraqi Jews out of the country to Iran, where they were then taken to Israel. He managed to escape from prison and travel to Israel, arriving in May 1950.

While living in Israel, his views of Zionism changed. He writes that, he "was disillusioned personally, disillusioned at the institutionalized racism, disillusioned at what I was beginning to learn about Zionism's cruelties.


The principal interest Israel had in Jews from Islamic countries was as a supply of cheap labor, especially for the farm work that was beneath the urbanized Eastern European Jews. Ben Gurion needed the "Oriental" Jews to farm the thousands of acres of land left by Palestinians who were driven out by Israeli forces in 1948".

I organized a demonstration in Ashkelon against Ben Gurion's racist policies and 10,000 people turned out."]
After serving in the Israeli Army between 1967-1970, Giladi was active in the Israeli Black Panthers movement.


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As you can see Mr R - Nothing is ever as simple (especially in the ME ) as SIMPLETONS + Zionist propagandists , would wish it to be .


cheers.


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No marlowe thats not what the items I posted said,thanks for reading (sarc)....Ill recap.

Before the Israel was formed, the Jews already had issues with suppression and discrimination in these surrounding Arabs nations. After its foundation tho things got ten times worse for the Jews in these countries...to the point where theres just about none left in most Muslim majority nations.



25000 in Iran? out of 79 million...wow Iran should be so proud. Whats that,.03%, down from about 100000 before the revolution?

It wasnt some wild nationalistic movement that pushed these Jews out, it was the biased policies instituted by their home nations and violent public reprisals to punish them for the acceptance of the independent Israel on the world stage and in location in land of 'Palestine'.

 

is this a debate about who's got the bigger balls ?
stop copy-pasting stuff off of the internet please, it just looks like spam

 

That's debateable . According to some + biblical/mythical "history" , so-called "Jews" seems to have been have "issues " since "time immemorial" - they are history's ETERNAL MOANERS - always pretending to be "victims" while at the same time throughtout , enjoyed a considerable higher standard of living than average - be it in the Islamic world -
their "Golden age" in Moorish- Spain or Ommayad or other muslim empire.




For all you biitchings + moanings , there never been anything resembling a SHOA in the any part of the muslim world, It was'nt Arabs (Christian or Muslim) who dispatched six-million, WAS IT ?

btw - i THINK i'VE PROVED that Israel is NOT a democracy , its a racist state , discriminating against non-Jews . Its just a jEWISH VERSION OF a "DEMOCRACY "


Listen to Shlomo Sands or read his book - The Invention of the Jewish People.

Modern day "Jews " is a political Zionist invention.


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lol... I think youve at least proven to yourself what you profess to beleive.

Congrats. When you want to join reality give us a call.

The fact is your Arab heroes are the ones who decided the Jews were no good,well before 1948.When the talk of an independent Israel began things got worse for them.When the Arabs provoked the war,even worse. But when the Arabs got thier asses kicked it was really on. Such a tough choice for these places. Kick out the filthy Jews and steal their assets or keep them as prisoners,prevent them from leaving but deprive them of rights, to avoid an even stronger Israel.

Try and remember the Jews agreed to the Partition Plan.

“The Arab world is not in a compromising mood. It's likely, Mr. Horowitz, that your plan is rational and logical, but the fate of nations is not decided by rational logic. Nations never concede; they fight. You won't get anything by peaceful means or compromise. You can, perhaps, get something, but only by the force of your arms. We shall try to defeat you. I am not sure we'll succeed, but we'll try. We were able to drive out the Crusaders, but on the other hand we lost Spain and Persia. It may be that we shall lose Palestine. But it's too late to talk of peaceful solutions.”

— Arab League Secretary Azzam Pasha,
September 16, 1947

 

Here we go again!!! More Myth repetition

 

Goldstone avoids two crucial issues. One is that Arab Israelis do have some difficulties, such as their treatment with respect to military service (except for the Druze, of course) and the curtailment of some abilities (catching a bus in Jerusalem Friday night or getting leavened bread during passover). The second and bigger issue is that Palestinians on the West Bank aren't recognized as Israeli citizens, even though they don't have a Palestine to live on (what are the external and internal borders of Israel?)

Having said that, the apartheid comparison is not really valid. What is currently going on is more like a modern slow-motion displacement of natives by newcomers, with the original inhabitants losing more and more land while having fewer and fewer freedoms (political, economic and social) The Jewish Israelis don't want to kill or enslave the Palestinians - they just wish they would disappear from the land they own, preferably by emigrating.

At least the Israelis in recent decades haven't resorted to the tactic of a few wartime massacres to panic the Palestinians -the modern methods seem to be using the Settler movement as a tool of fear and land theft and the use of restricted zones, roadblocks and the infamous Security Wall to effectively ghettoize most Palestinians.

 

Well, to me, that describes a condition of apartheid. It's maybe not the exact same as other types of apartheid, but it is certainly an unacceptable situation.

 

Huh? Arab Israelis are exempted from conscription, they are not required to serve. It's an extremely nice and humane gesture on behalf of Israel which spares Israeli Arabs from having to fight against their Palestinian and non-palestinian arab brethren. How can it be turned into a negative is beyond me. Would you rather the conscription was mandatory for the Arabs too, just as it is for the Jews?

Needless to say Israeli arabs can and are welcome to volunteer and enlist.