19 dead from suspected suicide blast

Who cares? Most criminals have social disorders.

 

It matters that we identify the causes of this kind of behavior.

So, I care.

 

I have a very different attitude and make no excuses for cold blooded murder. So I care not for a person that kills children deliberately.

 

I'm not saying you should feel sorry for the guy. Killing innocent people on purpose is a completely monstrous act.

People should be able to state facts without having strawmen made of their positions. This Democratic Senator believes the act was monstrous too, I can assure you. She has a belief about psychology that I fundamentally disagree with, but I'm not willing to call her "more than worthless" for that.

 

Sure as hell felt like war to the Vietnamese, I'll bet.

 

I didn't call her "more than worthless" but I do think she is making excuses.

 

Wars happen...and the ain't no fun for anyone on the front lines.

 

Especially when your civil war is just someone else's proxy fight.

 

Sure, but some people really believe that we are slaves of circumstance. I don't agree, but I see where they're coming from.

I don't think it's moral weakness that leads them to this point of view.

 

We don't know. Karma goes back 1, 2 or more incarnations. Allow me to enlighten you:

 

True. The question is, what is the source of these severe social disorders.

The marginalization and ensuing anti-social behavior are done mostly by members of the terrorist's community. Behind each of the so-called lone wolf attacks we find a recruiter for an Islamist organization or an extremist Islamic scholar.

Most terrorist attacks take place in Muslim countries, against Muslims (for instance against shia in Iraq and Pakistan), so the theory about marginalization of poor young people by western societies being the reason for terror attacks is a pious self-destructive myth.

This is one sickening way to recruit suicide bombers:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2009/02/200923195547936438.html

 

Sure. Or just the internet in general, but I take your point.

I agree. I want to make it clear that I've never held that view. I do believe that Islam and political Islam shape behavior in fundamental ways.

But the truth is that the leftists who spout this viewpoint do have something of a point. Human beings are complex and simply isolating a single variable (Islam) gets nowhere near fully understanding this behavior.

The problem I have with leftists is when they pretend that Islam is a completely benign variable.

 

We're not talking about individual incidents--we were talking about police actions vs open warfare.

 

Okay, and you don't think that "police actions" sometimes warrant bombings? The entire occupation of Iraq during the 2000s was a police action, and bombings were certainly necessary then.

 

They could be old souls in young bodies. If we retaliate with violence and hatred, we create more violence and hatred. It will be a never ending chain. That is why Christ said to turn the other cheek, or if someone takes your jacket, give him your shirt also. In essence... love your neighbor, love your enemy.

 

Wait, does being the agent of Karma absolve you of the action? If those girls deserved it, did the poor bomber incur any negative Karma?

 

I am aware of the theory but question its use to explain away the suffering of innocents.

 

I mean, if you ask me it seems like this Karmic system is the cause of the never ending chain of violence Jazz mentioned.

Because now someone has to punish this bomber. And then someone has to punish the person who punished the bomber.

This metaphysical system seems pretty shitty.

 

Religions have a nasty habit of denying humans the right to be themselves. Even thoughts are policed. While repressing some of our natural traits is a must that affords us the protection of a society, taking the repression to extremes in hope of a better afterlife is certainly not a healthy approach to social life.

The main problem with political Islam, however, is not how the extremists see themselves or the relationship with their god. It's the way they see us, non-Muslims, or even Muslims who don't share their viewpoint. While our lives threaten their way of life, in our death our bodies become their stairways to heaven. Simply put, the main problem with Islam today is this worrying trend to turn human sacrifices into the main - and sometimes only - ritual needed for the salvation of the soul. I think that's why so many criminals become suicide bombers.

It's of course impossible to understand human behavior using a single variable. The leftist point of view must be taken into account, if only for a deeper understanding of the mysterious ways of the brain. People at either side of the political spectrum literally have what is called "a point of view", but those of us who favor horizons over points can't ignore them just because we don't like what they have to say.

The far left and political Islam are two sides of the same coin. Both ideologies claim to possess the absolute and ultimate truth. If any of them tells me the sky is blue, I'd check twice.

 

This how you justify the slaughter of children by Jihadists? And you say that Christianity demands that if someone attempts to push past me to kill another, I'm to stand aside and let them kill?

Actually protectors do use violence to protect: he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. (Romans 13:3-4)

You do not differentiate between the violence that takes another's rights, and the violence that defends another's, or ones own basic rights.

 

They are not necessarily innocents, they have lived and sinned on earth hundreds of years before.
It is a somewhat complex theory, but I find it makes a lot more sense than sitting in heaven, wherever that might be up there somewhere, at a laden table and listen to the angels harping! Or fry in hell forever. Those are tales the churches made up to control the masses better.
Karma is not punishment, but rather an opportunity to learn and grow through experience, including suffering.
Don't worry, Merven, you have a kind heart and that will guide you through life.

 

Watch Bitter Lake, it'll blow your mind.

 

Not only Jihadists have killed children, let's be clear about that, Americans killed many Iraqi children, Afghani children, Vietnam children, German children and so on and on.

I didn't say nor imply you should step aside and let someone get killed. Please, don't try to lead the idea of reincarnation into the absurd. As a Christian you should always help, if the opportunity arises, or else some day nobody will come to your aid. You reap what you sow!

That would be from the Old Testament. Christ has done away with that. He said, we should follow him. Christ never endorsed or promoted violence!
If you go and beat up your neighbor, because he is beating his child, then the Neighbor will be sore and vengeful towards you and will in turn harm you. It would be better to just step in and protect the child and calm the neighbor down, settle and calm the anger he has towards the child for whatever reason.

In the cases of Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany and Vietnam you can clearly see, how senseless, mindless and careless the Americans killed truly innocent children and people for their own Ego, but say they wanted to help the people.

There is individual karma as well as group karma that has to be worked out eventually. A great deal could already be done right now in this incarnation by making amends, making peace, ask forgiveness and compensate as good as possible. Unfortunately, that will never happen, because the American Ego is too big, so, they will be humbled by karma sometime down the road.

Mentioning the Americans is just as an easy example, other nations aren't perfect either!!

I guess, karma started off with Kain and Abel, and here we are now, still fighting with one another.
Planet Earth is only the second up from the bottom in evolution. Looks like this is the planet where mankind gets planed, drilled, sandpapered and eventually polished. Only then are we ready for the next phase on some other planetary body.
So, Zorro, stop fighting... shake hands instead.

I touched on that with the American example. By no means am I in full knowledge of this theory, I only learned about it in this present incarnation by reading Edgar Cayce and Rudolf Steiner.
If you seriously want to learn more about it, then, please, find the books to read. It is all there, just seek and you will find!

 

There is no negative karma - all karma presents an opportunity for us to learn and evolve to a higher consciousness. It is a slow process for most of us.

But it also happens that people sacrifice themselves, like Christ did, to teach the rest of us a lesson. If that was the case, what lesson is there to be learned for us? Any idea? Remember, violence begets more violence. It is hard to know what karma exactly is being played out. New karma is constantly created. We are unable to look behind the curtains of time. Too bad Cayce isn't around anymore, otherwise we could ask him.

Death is not the end of us, only the temporary end here on earth. We do come back again and again.

 

I think rather it is describing a cycle we are involved in which is indeed 'shitty'. The need is to find the way out.

The whole point of understanding karma is to get out of it, not to stay in it. So in Buddhism there is the wheel of life which is suffering which we are all caught up in, going round and round endlessly repeating ourselves, so yes, you are correct from that point of view it is endlessly repeating itself – that is because you have not been told of the way out of suffering which leads to the end of karma and rebirth. In Buddhism the way begins with the eightfold path http://www.dummies.comhttp://www.po...igion/buddhism/the-eightfold-path-of-buddhism. If anyone is interested in this but not in religion or dogma I recommend 'Buddhism without Beliefs' by Stephen Bachelor.


The idea is to get out of suffering. This world is caught up in suffering and at the moment we seem to be caught up in an ever repeating cycle - a people are hurt, hurt back and on and on. In Buddhism this is called Samsara and one will be caught up in it until one reaches enlightenment. However after enlightenment some people choose to be reborn again so that they can help the world to reach enlightenment and end its suffering. During this time they themselves can get dragged back onto the wheel!

While we keep reacting to issues we keep creating worse ones. Ironically the way out, which is a psychological reality, appeared to be more how we (certainly Europe) were moving until 9/11. Then it all stopped and we moved back into the realm of Samsara rather than trying to work out problems. Suddenly rather than trying to understand the issues - we were good, the other evil and since then the world has been acting on an ever more reactionary way which may easily move to its destruction.

Basically rather than dealing with our feelings in a reactive way, we need to integrate them and respond to issues using a system of ethics.(like the 8 fold path) Basically no one acts bad who has not been harmed. If we wish to change from the ever repeating cycle of violence we need to act in an ethical way and most of all we need to start understanding the difference between reactive emotion and feeling. Reactive emotion is incapable of empathy. It is stuck. Hence the ever repeating cycle. We need to be able to feel our own grief before we can have empathy with others in their grief and of course we need to protect ourselves from people who would harm us but the bottom line is, if we ever want out of the repetition of suffering we have to start acting in an ethical way, we need to recognise what we ourselves have done to cause that suffering and make amends for that. Until we do that then according to Buddhism we are indeed stuck in a never ending cycle of suffering.