19 dead from suspected suicide blast

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by 22catch, May 22, 2017.

  1. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    This has been a common occurrence in Mosul. The city has been flattened by both the US and Iraqi army. The civilians were told by the US and Iraq to take shelter so they did. The city was then bombed killing thousands who were taking shelter. There is no care taken to ensure civilians are not bombed. Just a suspicion that one Daesh man is in the locality is enough to send missiles randomly into that area, precision guided missiles is a joke to pretend that caution is taking place - just one of these missiles has enough power to destroy several buildings. Obviously this situation in Mosul is different to other cases of western backed bombing but the same tactic is used on other cities and that tactic gives rise to Daesh recruitment - I have little doubt that the MOAB bombing recently that killed x number of people generated at least twice x extra recruits due to their innocent families being blown to bits
     
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  2. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Do you think you are funny posting from a so called satirical article or have you done it to score a political point in your genuine belief that the news report is true?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  3. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    That very probably applies to every instance civilians are murdered by the US and other forces.
     
  4. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Well this bomb has just recruited some more of us I expect.

    It's only ever a question of which side you are on. Bat for your own team is my moto.
     
  5. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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  6. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    I've never batted for the other side so I can't comment, :D

    Why not just go for the common sense way and suggest both sides are bloody idiots?
     
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  7. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Because loyalty.

    Because an idiot that I love is still someone that I love.

    I love my mother no matter what she does. I side with her no matter what mistakes she makes.
    Same for my children and my dear friends.

    The bigger mistakes they make, the greater their need for my support.

    When my ********* dickhead friend provokes a fight in the pub, I cannot stand by and watch him take a beating no matter what he did to deserve it and no matter how much I agree with those beating him.
    For better or for worse, I have chosen my side. I bat for my own team, even when it is the losing team. Because it is still my team.


    Plus, I might not feel it is stupid to bomb other people. I may be as warlike as those who think it is OK to bomb me.
    I may be able to accept that we are at a war, I may even be able to accept the reasons for that war, but I cannot accept defeat in war.
    That price is too high.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  8. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    There is enough evil to go around.
     
  9. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I agree to the point that we have to be on one side or the other. And also when you draw the sword to throw the scabbord away. In war moderation is idiocy.
     
  10. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    A bit of a pathetic reason.
    I do condemn the country of my birth, and in equal measure to the ISIS idiots who committed this terrible bombing because both lots are just as wrong.
    The politicians make trouble but civilians on both sides always pay the price for their greed and stupidity.
    The real enemies are the bent/corrupt/greedy politicians and the sooner everyone see that the better off the whole world will be.
    An example is the US politicians from both parties who get massive bribes (campaign contributions) from the arms industry to start wars.
    They are as bad or worse than the Manchester bombers so deserve a very brief trial and death.
     
  11. Indofred

    Indofred Banned at Members Request

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    Tony Blair should also face trial and firing squad for lining his pockets with dirty money for starting wars.
     
  12. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    I don't do this myself. I recognise the parallels in our actions.
    And I recognise that our detractors will use those parallels to equate our actions as the same. Or perhaps morally the same.
    But they are not.
    We are not like ISIS. Nothing like them.

    This is the most tolerant society on earth. We really aren't the same. We really do live very peaceful and peaceable lives.
    We really do support a gazillion worthy charities and really are trying to save the world and make it a better place for all (us included ofc). Few societies on earth can match our good intention and also our experience at delivering good results.


    Corrupt politicians are indeed my enemy. But to a much lesser degree. They do not try and kill me.

    And so this is my point really, it's about degree. Yes we can be paralleled with more oppressive regimes. But we do not equate to them. We are oppressive lite.
    The nicest ones. Better us than ISIS. For all our warts and scars. We are in a different league.

    And I do not like to see a fifth columnist. One of our own whose natural sympathies are for those who wish to kill us.

    That is not a strong enough loyalty to me.
    If I am to stand in battle with you, I will need more.
    If I am to nation with you. To stand together united against an uncertain and oft cases unfriendly world, I'm going to need a whole lot more.

    I am a human being. I get things wrong. I make mistakes. Some of them are big mistakes.
    So are you. So do you.
    Take the good with the bad.

    If I can't trust you to do that, then you can't lead me, and you can't join me either.

    Take the good with the bad or take neither.

    Also, please don't sell us short. This society is one of the better ones out there. Oh yes.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  13. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    You may have to decide which side you are on. When you straddle the fence you take it from both sides.
     
  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you believe there are only two sides?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  15. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Ofc.
    My side and "the wrong side".
     
  16. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Yes
     
  17. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tell me what they are.
     
  18. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    What history has always shown us. Western civilization against Islam. It has always been so.
     
  19. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That isn't 'what history has always shown us'. You are wanting a Holy War it seems. Christianity against Islam. Some people believe your position is one of the reasons why Christians are being killed at the moment - that is with extremist Muslims doing the same as extremist Westerners do lumping all Muslims together as extremists, they too are lumping all Christians together with the Christian Right.

    http://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/interview-evangelical-christianity-devils-in-high-places-1524855

    Your Holy War ideas are not shared by most in the West - hence you are wrong about 'two sides'.
     
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  20. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Sure! Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Romans!. You are so smart!
    Well, there was that one episode where he made a whip and drove the wicked money changers from the temple, whipping their backsides with a whip while he chased them out of the building.
    [​IMG]

    But, really, I love how the Left tries to mis-use the scriptures and then claim that their misuse of the Scriptures should govern all Christian thought and government policy. And then they are for providing prayer rugs and washing stations in public for Jihadi's but insist that Christian student groups not be allowed to meet on school property after hours. You guys fool no one.
    Look forward to your long tortured apologetics in the event a Tea Party member ever actually harms anyone. But I have a feeling this crap is only reserved for those elements of society the Left has vicariously granted license to, like Jihadist.
    So how many more innocent 8 year old girls have to be shredded with ball bearings before you see the accounts as balanced?
    Yes, we should be kinder to the Jihadists that blow up our 8 year old girls with ball bearings. Because, folks who go to terrorist countries to obtain explosive vest, then find a group of 8 year olds to mingle within so they can blow themselves up, would be completely different if you simply humbled yourself before them and gave them even more that the all the free benefits they generally support themselves with, while in our countries that gave them free entry.
    Oh no. So we must do nothing while more 8 year old girls have their lives shredded away by Jihadist.
    I'm glad Kain wasn't elected Veep.
    Huh. What about the Ruskies?
    Does Halley's' Comet make an appearance in this thought system?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
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  21. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So motivation. Why this attack and why now? Craig Murray has a good article on this. He believes that it was deliberately done to have an affect on the British election. He also points out that the reason we are on critical level is because this bomb was very well made, too well made it is believed to have been done by this man. They therefore are taking this as more than a 'lone wolf gone mad'. We know that non lone wolf attacks tend to come in clusters and hence that is the justification given for having the army on our streets and being on critical alert. However Craig Murray believes that the reason there has only been one attack is because it was a 'snap election' and hence they were not properly prepared. Most people believe this attack helps the Tories but no one including myself is suggesting there is any kind of collusion in this by anyone who works for the British State. Other States??

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/05/that-critical-threat/

    Obviously we do not know if he is right or not but it is worth keeping in mind when looking at other attacks.

    Someone on 'This week' last night was suggesting another '9.11' may be due and we really need to share our intelligence more.
     
  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would agree with you there. Timothy Snyder in his account of the holocaust described what he believed the situation which could allow such inhumanity. Primary in this was statelessness. I think there are some parallels with the situation in the ME that have been created by the creation of failed States....and we have been involved in their creation - that is not just by destroying their states but also in financing and training the extremists - first who became Al Qaeda and the Taliban during the Afghanistan/Russia and US war and then Al Qaeda and off shoots in Syria including I think what became ISIS. Really as far as I can remember it was only when people refused to allow them to go and bomb Syria that politicians in the UK started admitting that it was Al Qaeda types they were supporting!! Our Governments have been complicit not only in the creation of failed states but also in the creation of extremist Muslim groups.

    Yes, but we believe this way is only for us. Our Governments in general do not see other people deserving the kind of rights we have. In order to be in a situation where we have those rights we go on wars, destroying states, killing millions of people and to be frank supporting the creation of fiends like Isis. People join Isis most often for Political reasons and one day looking at the rate Dictator Sisi had been mass murdering people in Egypt I could see why people could be moved to join them. They, all the various groups, are the only resistance there is. Yet we accepted the Coup in Egypt and Trump is more than happy to be the best of friends with Sisi. We may, for the time being and I do not expect it to last much longer..but we may have a privileged position, we may believe in human rights - we however at the moment are the ones with most might - we can do what we like with others and our Governments who represent us, who act in our name to do give the same privileges and rights to others. Democracy could have brought so much to the world if it had done that. Unfortunately it just brought the survival of the fittest so much that the UN is now seen as virtually worthless. We have not created a safe world for our children to grow up in.

    Are we hell? The bloodbaths we have engaged in in recent years are anything but oppressive lite and the supporting of regimes which carry out bloodbaths on their people shows we are complicit in these crimes against humanity.

    All wars have conscientious objectors. Without peacemakers war mongers would keep us always at war. It is not sympathy for ISIS - who could have sympathy for them - but if we fail to understand situations, if we decided we want to keep ourselves in ignorance, then we too bare responsibility. Democracy was beaten by neo liberalism, Corporate Power and a willingness to remain ignorant - actually I guess to a large extent that can be put on the mainstream press though that is far less of an excuse now.

    You been in the army? That may well be the correct discipline when risking your life with others who should be watching your back but democracies need the ability to absorb vast differences of opinion.
     
  23. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, and much more than a "political" Christianity; Mohamed was a political leader too, ordinary Muslims (not just extremists or fundamentalists) idealize a state where they are led by a religiously devout Caliph who commands their loyal military in jihad exhorted by devout mullahs from every mosque -the way it was in Mohamed's day.

    This is a fundamental difference with Christianity which has evolved away from the Muslim ideal since the times of the Holy Roman Empire. Popes used to crown rulers, bless their armies and dictate their laws, but Christians developed the notion faith was more personal, that laws should govern them and that their representatives should create their laws.

    This is a step history has not (yet) provided Muslims, they know the Christians took that step, but to them this is a flaw of another faith.
    Lefties reach for hackneyed explanations that supported their struggles in the past; colonialism, discrimination and the lack of adequate economic opportunity are favorites. Such factors must play a role, but the common thread to this global Islamic extremism is Islam.
    "The religion of peace" they tell us.
     
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  24. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Is it?
    The American president, doesn't matter who, always drags in God. Top of my head it's God bless our country. The head of state of the UK is the queen, who is head of the church. On every Dutch coin it says something like "God is with us".

    Oh yeah... Christians got a personal thing with God.
    Sure.

    Add to that, those lovely institutions like AIPAC.
    The I stands for Israel. But it's a Jewish club only.
     
  25. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I am agnostic. Why would I want a holy war? I am for the destruction of the enemy of my country. When they call my country the great Satan or cry death to America. It makes them my enemy. I prefer to live where people have choices...even if I disagree with those choices. Religion and sexual preferences should not be dictated by the State. Some peoples thinking seems rather dysfunctional to me....like supporting Muslims and gay rights and rights for women. Islam does not support gay rights and rights for women. I support choices...my enemy does not.
     
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