19 officers stood in the hallway waiting. Now, 19 children are dead

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by signalmankenneth, May 27, 2022.

  1. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    It is still way too early to tell what this revelation really means. There will certainly be an investigation for sure, but it should not distract from the main issue: How could an 18 year old with no driver's license or actual gun training, purchase not one, but two assault rifles, ammo, and body armor?

    THAT is the issue!
     
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  2. omni

    omni Well-Known Member

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    Doing nothing would have been better in this situation. Instead, they focused on arresting and tazing parents.
     
  3. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    And I'm sure there is more to it than just running toward the gunfire. I'm not defending the inaction at all, but I'm also willing to accept that it is more complicated than just running in.
     
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  4. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Blue Lives Matter More than Children's...
     
  5. Louisiana75

    Louisiana75 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hard to imagine what it was like for the parents who knew their kids were inside there. If that were me, I would have fought my way even if it meant my life. Nothing else at that point would've mattered.
     
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  6. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    "The on-scene commander at that time believed that it had transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded subject," Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) Col. Steven McCraw said.

    "From the benefit of hindsight where I'm sitting now, of course it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision. There's no excuse for that," he said.

    While officers waited outside adjoining classrooms at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, children inside the room repeatedly called 911 and pleaded for help, he said.


    ...
    From the OP, one who likely has done that sort of thing or trained on it at least.
     
  7. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I would agree, small town cops are not likely well trained for what was going on.
    But that is not really an excuse. That's a risk cops take when joining. Like one does when one joins the military. A person's life could be in danger.
     
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  8. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've only read a little bit about this, but it sounds like a hideous mess... First responders are supposed to respond....first...

    The CNN article doesn't even mention the town SWAT team.... which one has to imagine would have been closer than a Border Patrol SWAT team...

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxd...bragged-about-training-at-schools-on-facebook
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
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  9. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    And what funds were used?
    What proof of age was used?
    Can anyone in Tx just walk in a buy guns and ammo on credit? Without ID?
     
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  10. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    And I would like to know who that individual gun store employee was that made this sale and didn't stop to ask "what's going on here"? Or do they have gun vending machines in TX now?

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing, I totally agree. I've personally been assigned an opening to watch with my dog during a hostage situation where we KNOW we should roll in, and command won't let you. I can't even remember how many times things like that happened.

    If you go in anyway, you'll be crucified by your own agency and the press even if you save the day. If you do what you're told, you're crucified in the press and probably feel like **** because you wanted to go save people. You train for it, you're ready to go, and some clot won't let you do your job. It's helpless and it's another reason so many of us bailed on the job.

    Until I hear the radio traffic and the recap I can't **** on these guys, since I've eaten that sandwich.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
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  12. Louisiana75

    Louisiana75 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'd like to know where an 18 year old with no job get the nearly $4,000 it would take to buy all of this.
     
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  13. straight ahead

    straight ahead Well-Known Member

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    The NYPD would have gone in naked.
     
  14. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    No clue, but where did you come to calculate that amount? I have no idea what these weapons go for these days, but I know it ain't dirt cheap..
     
  15. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Do you realize that when the first senior officer, or off site command says to stay put you are ****** if you do and ****** if you don't? You do realize if they DID run in they could also be charged in hindsight? If they were told to make entry and did NOT, then guess what? Fire and charge them, although there is nothing you CAN charge them with since the scotus ruled the police are under no directive to protect you.

    This is not the movies. You should try actually doing this kind of thing or you resemble an internet black belt.
     
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  16. Arkanis

    Arkanis Well-Known Member

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  17. Louisiana75

    Louisiana75 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have to change it probably closer to 2500-3000.

    Each AR average at 1000, he bought two, and 375 rounds is near 500, plus tax.
     
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  18. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    That's the whole point. If the commander says stay put because it's now a hostage situation, you cannot go in. You're dying to go in, you want to do what's right, you know you can help. And you get told to stay put. Trust me, it's an awful feeling and it doesn't make you want to do the job any more. Knowing what we know now the few guys who were ready could have gone in. Would the bad guy have killed the kids anyway? Who knows, it's all hindsight. Breaching a door that opens to you with a room full of hostages and no proper entry tools (door hitter, dog, smoke, flash, ect) is the last thing on your "want" list, but it's on the "let's go" list.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
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  19. signalmankenneth

    signalmankenneth Well-Known Member

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    Here's what experts say police should have done in the Uvalde school shooting

    In active shooter situations, police officers are trained to confront the shooter immediately — not to wait.

    But in this week's elementary school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, the gunman spent more than an hour inside the school before a tactical unit killed him, despite officers' earlier arrival. That has raised questions about the police response — and whether some of the 19 children and two teachers who died might have been saved if officers had taken a different approach.

    "When there's an active shooter, the rules change," Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw told journalists on Friday, as he gave the most complete account yet of the tragedy that unfolded at Robb Elementary.

    McCraw identified a crucial flaw in the police strategy: The incident commander on the scene believed the situation had moved from being an active shooter scenario to one where the gunman had barricaded himself inside the school, McCraw said, with "no kids at risk," because any civilians inside were already dead.

    https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/1101812648/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-experts-police-tactics
     
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  20. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    I would think tear gas would be ubiquitous in police departments of any size?
     
  21. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    The gun vending machine comment is absurd hyperbole. You do understand that the sale requires a NICS check?

    https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics
     
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  22. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    This question needs to be answered by the government. But I'm guessing it won't.
     
  23. Lucifer

    Lucifer Well-Known Member

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    It is sarcasm. Does that really need to be explained?
     
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  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I realized where you were coming from after several of your posts.

    It was not clear in the 1st one.
     
  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Border Patrol tactical team arrived at Uvalde school shortly after noon -- but cops stopped them from going in

    [​IMG]

    This town has a SWAT team.

    The shooter entered the school at 11:33 a.m. Border Patrol and ICE teams 'showed up half an hour later, having made the drive north from the border when they heard the news," beating the town's own SWAT there.

    Immigration agents were stunned that after a half hour that the towns police force and SWAT team had not stopped the threat before they arrived.

    Uvalde cops have argued that they wrestled with parents, while the killer rampaged, tazing and cuffing the parents because the parents were unarmed, untrained, but, they also held back armed and trained federal officers for another 45 minutes after they got there.

    During the 45 minutes while officers refused to engage, they were getting 911 calls from children, still alive in the classroom, begging them to send the police in NOW! The shooting continued sporadically while they waited to breach.

    "“From 12:03 to 12:46, 911 dispatchers received numerous calls from within the classroom, including repeated calls from a child whispering that people were dead and begging: ‘Please send the police now,’"

    "Student calls to 911:
    12:03—whispered she's in room 112
    12:10—said multiple dead
    12:13—called again
    12:16—says 8-9 students still alive
    12:19—student calls from room 111
    12:21—3 shots heard on call
    12:36—another call
    12:43—asks for police
    12:47—asks for police"

    [​IMG]
     

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