2016 Election: No Conservatives need apply-

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Gorn Captain, Sep 22, 2016.

  1. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Let's run down the list--

    (Brace yourselves Trump supporters)


    1. Massive Government works projects, from "walls" to infrastructure.

    2. Restrictions on international trade in line with old school Dick Gephardt liberals.

    3. NO "reforming" (aka privatizing) of Social Security and Medicare.

    4. Increased Government spending (infrastructure, Defense, etc.)

    5. Pro-choice (despite "late hour conversion" rhetoric)

    6. Pro-gay rights (Actually, I don't think Hillary has attended a gay wedding)

    7. 6 weeks paid maternity leave.

    8. Top "campaign advisor" lobbies Congress for more laws to address gender pay inequity.

    9. Opposes neo-conservatism. Blames Bush for 9/11. Blames Bush/Cheney/Neo-cons for "lying us into the Iraq War"

    10. Amicable to a Russian ex-KGB dictator who kills his political opponents and wants to re-form the Soviet Union.

    11. Said he was "troubled" by the police shooting in Tulsa, called Tulsa and Charlotte incidents "tragic".


    The only appeal to "conservatism" is his Primary and still current...pandering to xenophobia and bigotry, which conservatives deny is part of their ideology.

    His off-handed (and half-hearted) claims to "cutting the size of Government"....are contradicted by his promises of no cuts to entitlements, more defense spending, more Government works projects, more entitlements like paid maternity leave, etc.


    See, at its core, "Populism" is NOT "Conservatism". In most countries, it's associated with "populist socialism".

    And in the US, historically, it has ranged from Theodore Roosevelt ....to the Progressive Party of 1924 led by Robert M. La Follette.....to the Share Our Wealth movement of Huey Long in the 1930s....to (again) George Wallace in the 60s....to Pat Buchanan's anti-free trade rhetoric in the 90s and early 2000s.

    People on the Left...like most Trump supporters....conflate traditional conservatism with the race-baiting rhetoric of Trump....and that's a mistake. It IS possible to be a conservative and not pander to bigots.

    So basically, there is no CONSERVATIVE running for President in 2016....well, maybe Johnson, but my dead grandmother has a better shot than he does.

    Ergo, the Ideology of Conservatism has no champion in this race. Nor will it, regardless of the outcome.
     
  2. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    I seriously wonder if the Evangelicals are gonna sit this election out.
     
  3. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    I didn't even get (directly) to how RELIGIOUS Conservatism has no champion this year either.

    Trump is a gambling tycoon....on his THIRD marriage....to his SECOND (known) mistress (who modeled nude in lesbian-oriented photo shoots).....who happily admits he has "never asked God for forgiveness"....

    AND throw in his obvious leanings towards pro-choice (praising Planned Parenthood even AFTER the 2016 GOP Primary started)....and his obvioius indifference or even support of gay marriage...etc...etc.

    As far as the Presidency goes, from 2017 to 2021?....Religious conservatism is dead, regardless of who wins.
     
  4. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    Thanks for telling us something we already know.

    I support almost all of the positions you laid out.

    Trump is a nationalist candidate, which is a good thing.

    Being overrun by third-worlders is a major problem that needs to stop. I know you deeply want to destroy the white majority, but I'd rather not--enter Trump.
     
  5. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe your 11 points are correct. there is no conservative running as the GOP nominee. In fact conservatives have become the new RINO's to Trump and his supporters. Trump is a populist, a nationalist and a nativist. Not a conservative.

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/08/14/conservatives-are-the-new-rinos/

    The problem the Democrats have is they nominated a candidate with close to identical unfavorable/dislike rating. According to RCP Trump's dislike factor is at 58%, but that is down from a month ago when he was disliked by 63% of all Americans. Clinton on the other hand has risen from 53% a month ago when she led Trump by around 8 points up to 55% today with the polls almost tied.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...rump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html

    Trump has a problem with Republicans, he is averaging only 78% of the Republican base vote, Romney received 93% of the GOP base back in 2012. But they are not going to Clinton as some high profile life long Republicans have stated they would vote for here. 9% of that remaining 22% are going to Johnson, 1% to Stein. Only 6% of the GOP base state they will vote for Clinton, identical to the 6% Obama received in 2012. The rest fall into the categories of will not vote or undecided.

    Clinton has a similar problem with her Democratic base. She is also receiving only 78% of the Democratic base vote, Johnson is getting 6%, Stein 5% and Trump 5%. The rest are undecided. Obama received 92% of the Democratic base vote back in 2012, Romney 7%. Clinton's problem with with the young voters, many Sanders supporters who view Clinton as in the hip pockets of Wall Street. In the age group 18-30 Obama won them by a 62-38 margin. Clinton is winning this age group today 40-28, but Johnson is getting 20% of the 18-30 year old votes and Stein 8%. Although Trump is doing ten points worst than Romney with this group, Clinton is doing 22 points worst than Obama.

    Right now independents are split with both Clinton and Trump at 32%, Johnson at 17% and Stein at 6% with the rest either in the won't vote column or undecided. Romney won independents in 2012 51-45.

    The dislike factor of both candidates are at work in these figures. Comparing favorable ratings, Obama was at 52% favorable in 2012, Clinton at 41% today. Romney was at 50% favorable in 2012, Trump at 38%. These number speak for themselves. Outside of Clinton's and Trump's avid supporters, no one likes them and no one wants either one to be the next president. Trump has problems with real/true conservatives and life long Republicans, Clinton has problems with the young voters and sanders supporters.
     
  6. DarkSkies

    DarkSkies Well-Known Member

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    I tried looking up some exit polling info from the primaries to see where they stood, but could only find vague information. Time for another PF poll I guess :D.
     
  7. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

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    This is because of the Progressives having dragged this country so far too the left in the last 10 years. The DNC itself has purged all the Blue-dog Democrats from their ranks, and pushed them to become Independents or Libertarians. At the same time the RNC is in the process of expanding their ideological base. Without a reversal of trends, you will see the DNC ranks continue to shrink, and the RNC ranks start to actually grow. You might even see the DNC shrink to third party status behind the RNC and the Libertarians. All in an effort to return this country back to where it should be, center right.

    I know you disagree. You still have dreams of Progressives conquering the world. There are just too many sources for the real information to get out. Progressives are losing their control of the flow of information, and people are finding out what is and has really happened.

    Donald Trump is just a step in the right direction, Next, will come someone more Conservative. So, you best get used to what is coming, or you too will be left behind. No pun intended.
     
  8. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And a major plus------------ he's not Hillary.
     
  9. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Progressives do not drag the country....they represent the country. If the country has moved left then that is the will of the people. Conservatives are a dying breed
     
  10. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Hard to say. They certainly don't have a champion in Trump, but he is not the vicious enemy that Clinton is. They do have an ally in Mike Pence.

    I doubt that religious conservativism is "dead." They command a large block of votes and remain as important to the Republican party as the Black vote is to the Democrats. No Republican can win if the religious right sits out. Consider Mitt Romney.
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obviously you don't understand why Trump is winning.

    I'll let you figure it out if you can.
     
  12. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    It's hilarious that guys who are almost PURE ideological conservatives....like Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz...are now "RINOs" to the Trump Cult. "RINO" being code for "a liberal who says they're a Republican".

    Meanwhile, on several social and domestic policy issues?....Trump is nearly identical to Clinton. Or even surpassing her on things like trade. With Trump sounding like a Dick Gephardt Democrat.
     
  13. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    See, I KNEW it was "liberals' fault"....that Trump sounds like a liberal on those issues. :D

    "Next, will come someone more Conservative."

    And of course "NEXT TIME!!!!"....the eternal refrain of the Rightwinger who sees their Ideology losing an election. :) (again)

    - - - Updated - - -

    At this point? That's 70-80% of the "support" from Trump from so-called "conservatives."

    Hillary Hate.


    So really, they don't care if Trump GOVERNS on even Clinton's agenda....as long as he's not actually Clinton.

    :)
     
  14. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Under the non-derogatory ACTUAL definition of a "conservative" (smaller government, free markets, privatized entitlements, no massive Gov't spending, no new Gov't mandates on businees)....Trump fails.

    If the Alt Right want to re-define "conservative" as "a person who panders to racism and xenophobia, but supports Government largesse and Government programs and Government entitlements".....in other words, a "George Wallace Democrat"?.....Trump qualifies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The ideology of Religious Conservatism is dead.

    The Religious Right STILL EXIST....they're just proving themselves hypocrites and partisans by voting for a guy who on sooooooooo many levels of his personal AND political life....contradicts their supposed "beliefs."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Notice you couldn't actually refute any of my points?

    All you were left with was a schoolyard "I know....but I'm not going to tell YOU!"

    Reason?....simple....you CAN'T refute my points. In fact, I think you agree with the entire premise of the OP, but naturally can't admit it.
     
  15. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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  16. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

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    In your dreams dude/dudette! In 2008, 36% of the country was registered, or identified themselves as Democrats, and 28% as Republican. Today those numbers stand 29% Democrats and 26% Republicans. That is a 7% drop for Democrats and a 2% drop for Republicans. The Democrats rode the Libertarian's coat tails into office in 2006 and 2008. Then dropped them as Progressives like Pelosi, Reid and Obama took over the DNC ranks. Many moderate Liberals dropped out of the party. The Progressives do not represent this country, and never will. But they have pushed the DNC so far left that they will have to reverse the trend, and moderate their stances, or risk dropping to third party status. But you and your fellow zombies keep believing you represent this country. One day you will wake up and find that you are just one more extremist group in this country. Totally out of touch with mainstream America. Totally irrelevant.
     
  17. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    President Obama and the Democrats who won in 2008 and 2006....were "libertarians"????
     
  18. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    I see claims without evidence. I was responding to a conservative who claimed this country has been dragged left for ten years. Take it up with him.
     
  19. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    If they still exist, how can they be dead?

    And why shouldn't they vote for a man they think will be friendlier to their well being than a woman who find them deplorable and "not Americans?"

    And if their vote is decisive in either electing or defeating Trump, how can you count them "dead?"

    Why do so many Progressives let their hatred of Whites and Christians and Conservatives in general cloud their reason? Not that I mind, of course. It is always an advantage to be misunderstood and underestimated by one's enemies. If the Democrats want to consider the Evangelicals a spent force, so much the better. They will misallocate their resources.
     
  20. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't have any points.

    Just another anti-Trump noise post that makes no sense in a long litany of desperate OPs.

    You just re-affirmed you still don't understand, despite multiple people explaining it to you in this very abysmal excuse for a thread.
     
  21. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

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    It is something that liberals reject. It is call common sense. The Liberals dragged this country so far to the left very quickly. One short decade. As a result, it hasn't held. The country is rejecting the concepts of open borders. They are rejecting the concept of men using the same restrooms and dressing rooms as their small daughters. They are even pushing back at attempts to start a race war in this country. As the liberals keep trying to push left, the country is resisting back to the right. But it is just a resistance right now. Soon, it will gain traction.

    Let me put it in a story that even a liberal can understand. I am sure you have heard the one of the little engine that could. Well, think of the engine as the progressive party. The little engine is chanting, "I think we can. I know we can. YES, WE CAN!!!" Just a chanting away, and chugging away from the center. At the same time, you have the conductor telling the passengers that the train isn't moving, it is really the station that is moving. Slowly, the passengers stop believing the conductor's lies, and one by one the cars are applying the breaks to their cars. Now, you have the engine attempting to pull the grade with the cars resisting. One by one the cars begin uncoupling from the train and rolling back down hill. The train keeps getting smaller, and slower. Eventually, the engine realizes that he is all alone, and moving away from everyone else. But the rest of the cars are just sitting at the bottom of the hill. Then someone notices two engines backing in their direction. They are the Republicans and the Libertarians. The cars hook themselves to the two trains, and they chug away. Back in the direction of the station. The Republicans stop just a little past the station, and the Libertarians stop a little before the station. The station's name is Center-Right. It sits outside the sprawling town of Mainstream America. And they all live happily ever after. Except the Progressives on the Democrats train. They were lost in the wilderness. Common sense would tell them that all they have to do is reverse their direction, and follow the tracks back to Mainstream America. But alas they were too smart to ask common sense anything. So, they remained. One lonely voice lost in the wilderness. Totally unheard and irrelevant. Telling stories about when they had it all.

    In case your wondering, the breaks on the cars are already on. Donald Trump is the catalyst that will get the cars to unhook from the train, and start rolling back down hill. The next election in 2020, and 2024 will see the Libertarians become a viable second party, and the DNC relegated to third party status. That is unless, the DNC starts backing the train up now. Either way, the Progressives are going to fall by the wayside.
     
  22. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

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    Typical leftwing response. No, they were supported by Libertarians. Then the DNC left them in the dust.
     
  23. rkhames

    rkhames Well-Known Member

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    I am the one that you were responding to. You have claimed that progressives represent America. Yet, I have seen no proof of that either. As far as my claim about the DNC losing ground, here you go. Enjoy.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-near-historical-lows.aspx
     
  24. Doug_yvr

    Doug_yvr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Shhhh! The rest of the Trump supporting racists are running around the forum trying to quash the idea he's a bigot and here you are setting crosses on fire.
     
  25. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly. I always liked Dick Gephardt. He seemed honest although our political views didn't always match, perhaps only about half the time. Missouri outside of St. Louis has been a fairly conservative state and even the Democrats from Missouri if they weren't from St. Louis were fairly conservative for the most. Blue dog is a term that applies.

    Isn't strange that the term RINO now applies to all Republicans who do not support Trump with no thought to ideology or political philosophy at all? Trump is the true RINO in the mix. He is as liberal of George Pataki. But Pataki has an excuse, he is from New York. Well, I guess Trump is from New York tool. So this race is between two New York Liberals. Only one though admits and runs as a Democrat, the other is a wolf who has pulled the sheep's clothing over himself disguising himself as a Republican when in all honesty, he is not.

    Perhaps Trump is trying to bring back the Rockefeller Republicans of the Northeast.
     

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