2017 ozone hole smallest since 1988

Discussion in 'Science' started by Robert, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Donor

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    We used to debate ozone like man caused climate is debated today.

    But though they said man caused the ozone level to deplete, nobody said it was caused by climate.

    Now comes a report from NASA blaming the shrinking Ozone levels on climate.

    Guess sooner or later it came to this.

    By the way, we were told the shrinking ozone level was great for the earth. Funny how it changes.

    http://earthsky.org/earth/2017-anta...ince-1988?mc_cid=0f120afd7e&mc_eid=60325daa3c

     
  2. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    CFC11 on the rise...
    [​IMG]
    Emissions of Banned Ozone-Eating Chemical Are Rising
    May 16, 2018 - Something strange is happening with a now-banned chemical that eats away at Earth's protective ozone layer: Scientists say there's more of it — not less — going into the atmosphere and they don't know where it is coming from.
     
  3. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Likely cheating on ozone treaty found...
    [​IMG]
    Likely cheating on ozone treaty found
    Fri, May 18, 2018 - CONTRAVENTION: NOAA chemist Stephen Montzka said either the banned chemical is being made or its byproducts are not being reported as required by a 1987 treaty
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Your cite doesn't support your opinion.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Donor

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    What is my opinion?
     
  6. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    Scientists like to overreact.

    It makes their daily boring lives seem important.

    "Oh my God!.....all the ice is melting".

    No its not.
     
  7. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well NASA make it up as they go along, don't you know that? They have an in-house monthly prize for who can come up with the dottiest theories.
     
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  8. Liberty Monkey

    Liberty Monkey Well-Known Member

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    Ozone cycle is rather short so the reduction in cfc's worldwide and 2 decades the Ozone is showing signs of recovery already. When I was at uni the estimates were it would take a century to return to pre industrial revolution days that's probably changed now.

    It's created by UV-b and UV-c as the rays filter through the atmosphere.

    Without Ozone there would no life on land! Only in the sea.
     
  9. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nature is ever in flux. Always has been, always will be.
     
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  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I really don't get it.

    Your first sentence suggests you believe climatologists.

    Your second sentence suggests you DON'T believe climatologists, and think they are such unbelievable fools as to not recognize their own findings.
     
  11. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    "We used to debate ozone like man caused climate is debated today."

    We looked to data back then and determined that action was required. The result was a treaty signed by numerous nations oriented to reducing the presence in our atmosphere of the offending chemicals. We all paid a price for that, as it meant that numerous devices (refrigerators, cars, etc.) had to move to different chemistry and were thus slightly less efficient. It meant labor was required as well - paid for by individuals as well as corporations.

    And the result was that we made an important difference in earth's atmosphere.

    Today, the climate change issue is not opposed by data, but almost purely by politics, with opinion divided along partisan political lines. And, that divide includes the division in belief in whether we can (or ever could have) made a difference. The divide includes opposition to the idea of cooperation on a world wide basis. The divide is bolstered by acceptance of the idea that science is corrupt and that there is a world wide conspiracy. The divide includes notions that someone is trying to get rich. It includes denial of science based on concern that solutions to the problem could be expensive - without much if any attempt to understand what the actual costs of various solutions might be. It comes with moves by the current president to increase tariffs on alternative energy technology, damaging the alternative energy corporations in America - which hire more than 3X what coal hires. It comes with denial of projections of the impact of a warming climate - on food, on various populations, etc.


    What is going on today bears NO similarity to what was going on when Earth worked together to solve an atmospheric ozone problem.
     
  14. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Donor

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    One sentence of my opinion followed by the rest being your opinion.

    Thanks for being an alarmist. I am not in the mood to care.
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You were wrong about something that you really SHOULD care about.

    The fact that a decision on a topic of science that is of major world wide interest is being decided on nothing more that party line should hit you as incredibly disgusting.

    Think were that leads.
     
  16. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is your alarmist opinion. I shall keep a note of your alarm.
     
  17. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    Completely different.

    The Earth does not have a history of naturally removing the Ozone layer.

    It does have a natural history of changing the climate.

    This isn't something we can prevent from happening.
     
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  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, it's a factual statement concerning the difference between the ozone debate and the partisan political decision making process that ignores science today.
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh i see. Magically you became the world;'s authority.
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    We knew how long ozone remains in the atmosphere - just like we know how long co2 stays in the atmosphere.
    This isn't true. Besides that, the causes of the excess warming going on today (that is, the part that is not related to sun activity) is pretty darn well known.

    Let's remember, too, that this started with deniers actually denying that the climate isn't actually changing!!!
    We know how to make a difference. Stopping climate change in any kind of short time fram would be extremelyh hard, but simply slowing it down is a serious advantage in that it allows for human response to the change.

    And today, the deniers are even refusing to take action on the ramifications of warming that is clearly happening. That is, their simple refusal to accept what the source might be is bleeding into the realm of refusing to accept that the earth is actually warming, and that warming is having increasingly serious effects.
     

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