31 Reasons why I won't take the injection

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Eleuthera, Feb 26, 2021.

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  1. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Aren’t all vaccine induced immunities produced by the human being?

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding what’s going on with these claims about people still being infected or “getting” the virus after vaccination. Are there people claiming Covid vaccines work like a mask or plexiglass shield or something to keep virus away from people?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  2. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    No idea what "If you support something" means
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    some seem to think this it seems or at least they want to act like it to try and confuse people about the vaccines effectiveness
     
  4. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. But your post implied that their was a special sterilising vaccine that prevented you from getting the virus, which is kind of true but only if your body reacts to it. Some folks with very poor immune systems (Especially the very elderly) may not produce a sufficient response to prevent them getting the virus. Though indications are that even in this group they are highly unlikely to become ill enough to need hospitalisation, let alone die as they surely would without it.

    I think you are seeing disingenuous people using black and white examples to imply the vaccine doesn't work.
    Its the old "Car brakes clearly don't work because people still crash, so we should remove brakes from cars" argument. :roflol:
     
  5. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Do you some examples of people referring to vaccines as more of a “force field” protection (for lack of a better term) as opposed to immunity preventing infection induced by non-infectious antigen from vaccines?

    This idea vaccines don’t ever prevent infections has me perplexed. I’m not sure where it originated but I see it everywhere. If it’s just a talking point to combat claims all vaccines prevent infection in all vaccinees all the time I understand the point of it I guess. But it’s as inaccurate as the counterpoint. And I haven’t observed the counterpoint. But I’m willing to look at the evidence.
     
  6. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Good points about elderly and immunocompromised individuals. I really don’t know how to be more clear than I was here on the different reactions of individuals to vaccination but I’m open to suggestions.

    What can I amend to clarify my points? Clarity is my goal, but apparently I’ve failed here.
    I suppose that’s the case. As usual it’s a binary division for most. We have people who overestimate efficacy and people who underestimate it. Then I come along and just present the empirical evidence (which contradicts both biases) and both sides lose their collective feces. But that’s the PF we all know and love! :)
     
  7. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    For calling out when you dodge and can't present facts to back up your claims?
     
  8. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    Admitting your defeat is easier than actually having to think. I get it, from you.
     
  9. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    Some how, that does not surprise me. You have no idea about anything that you post.
     
  10. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    You don't like it because trying to confuse people on this subject is YOUR job.
     
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we have a thread here saying vaccines don't work cause some tested positive after getting the vaccine.... did you not see them

    ok, see you also say "I’m not sure where it originated but I see it everywhere.'

    yes, even here

    I agree with you, but anti-vaxxers are using anything they can to try and get people not to vax
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    seems the anti-vaxxers want to confuse everyone like it's their JOB, why is that?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  13. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    No need to I agreed with your summary. I just your questioning of this sentence;
    the vaccine does not stop you from getting the virus, it only trains your body to fight it off
    Which seemed correct to me.
     
  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. In your last post I understood you thought some were overestimating protection by how you replied to my “force field” analogy. That’s what I haven’t seen. We are in agreement on this point, I misunderstood you.

    Yes, I’ve had self proclaimed medical professionals here on PF claim sterilizing immunity doesn’t exist—in any circumstance. I’ve seen media reports saying these vaccines don’t prevent infection, they only lessen severity of disease. I’ve gone round and round with other PF members that parrot the media claims that the vaccines don’t prevent infections even after being shown studies verifying both symptomatic and asymptomatic infections are being prevented (the virtual definition of sterilizing immunity). In every case from media, to the healthcare worker, to random PF members—all erroneously claim these vaccines don’t prevent infection—yet are staunchly pro vax—to the point of launching ad hominem attacks on the unvaccinated and advocating for mandatory vaccination. It just makes no sense. If you want people to get vaccinated, why tell them vaccines don’t prevent infection. Or don’t keep you from getting Covid.
    And many pro-vaxxers seem to be attempting to achieve less vaccinations as well. I don’t understand why we can’t just show people the evidence and the “science” if that term is meaningful anymore, and let people make up their own minds.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  15. Ostap Bender

    Ostap Bender Well-Known Member

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    The diabolic mRNA 'jab' will kill anyone
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ". It just makes no sense. If you want people to get vaccinated, why tell them vaccines don’t prevent infection. Or don’t keep you from getting Covid."

    "I don’t understand why we can’t just show people the evidence and the “science” if that term is meaningful anymore, and let people make up their own minds."

    agree all the way up to the end

    I say the vaccine does not stop the virus from getting into your body, what it does is train your immune system to fight the virus when it does enter the body, so one may just have no symptoms at all as the body fights it off so fast that it never gets a chance to do harm, no hospital visit, no death... all good reasons to get the vaccine

    I am trying to spread the truth, so that the lies about the vaccines 'not being effective because some tested positive' will be countered by that truth

    saying it stops you from testing positive, and then people test positive, gives strength to the anti-vaxxers arguments imo

    we always have to spread the truth, even if the anti-vaxxers are trying to spin the truth, otherwise trust is lost
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  17. Tigger2

    Tigger2 Well-Known Member

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    100%.
    Its like they're scared of success. Over here the news is all about he Indian variant and the vaccine never gets a mention. But the vaccine works against the Indian variant and nearly 70% of us have had the first dose now.
    Jeez, they're scaring the public just as we are re-opening. Aaarghhhh.
     
    557 likes this.
  18. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    There are no guarantees in life. Crossing the ocean in a boat or airplane, some won't make it. Will the Rabbi not fly or float. Cars and public transportation?... people do die. The flu vaccine isn't a guarantee against catching the flu. And every year the broad spectrum shots become broader. Does that make us guinea pigs? All drugs have side effects, some deadly, on some people. Something as common as ibuprofen can cause irreparable heart damage in some people. Even eating can cause you to choke to death. But in all of this, the benefits far outweigh the risks. With all due respect, I think the Rabbi is afflicted with a bad case of complainisitis which causes an irresistible urge to make long lists for the sake of spite. That said, if one has an inkling that a vaccine could hurt them, or an underlying affliction such as severe allergies which might bring on anaphylactic shock from the vaccine, then postponing it might be the way to go. It's a personal choice. But so far, the positive effects of the vaccine are becoming more apparent by the day. And bad side effects are so few as to be negligible in contrast.
     
  19. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I do not care if you get the shot or not.

    I care that you think you can impel those of us who decided not to get these shots, for their own reasons, to get the shot whether they want it or not.

    That is called tyranny ands the kiss if freedom. It appears that this is your goal, with zero authority to do so.
     
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    huh, I don't think I can change the mind of an anti-vaxxer, I just present the truth so those that are still making the choice, can make an informed one and see that most of the anti-vaxxer nonsense is just that... nonsense

    you seem to have quite the imagination of what you think others want to do to you, no one is gonna force you to get the vaccine, that is your choice
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  21. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    So you rely on misinformation and lies to try to achieve your aims that it denigrates anything that you claim is the truth.
     
  22. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    You pronounce any who differ with you as "anti-vaxxers" without even realizing that nearly all have had a vaccine at some point or the other.

    Lays to rest your claims as to the truth in the midst of your lies.
     
  23. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps we are using different definitions of words and conflating terms. Does “getting” mean exposure or infection? If “getting” is just exposure, millions are “getting” the virus and not being infected or sick or dying all the time—even without being vaccinated. We all have varying infectious doses needed to induce infection based on factors like blood type, obesity, naive T cell titers, vitamin D levels, etc. so if exposure is synonymous with “getting” a virus then so many people are “getting” the virus (vaccinated and unvaccinated) the term is essentially meaningless.

    To me, “getting” a virus implies infection. And it’s impossible to “get” an infectious disease without being infected with the causal pathogen. If we are talking about people who breathe in viable SARS-CoV-2 virus but do not have viral entry/replication in their cells, I would say they were exposed, not that they had “gotten” the virus.
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    did you get the vaccine, I did... so did Trump
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, but the anti-vaxxers are now claiming the vaccines are not effective as some test positive after the vaccine, and the reason for that is one can still get the virus, just the body fights it off before it can do harm as that is what the vaccine does, it's trains your bodies immune system to recognize and fight the virus

    just like with a flu shot, you may still get the flu, but the body fights it off better as it's been trained to recognize it and fight it better, so it will be way less severe


    so far though, from what we are seeing, the covid vaccine seems to be doing a great job of keeping people from getting sick enough to even feel the need to get tested
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
    557 and Tigger2 like this.

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