5 dead, 16 hospitalized in mass shooting at Highland Park 4th of July parade, shooter being sought

That’s why I intentionally used the term “suggests”. The information there suggests a location and on the forum the poster has claimed to be from there. I have no proof as I clearly stated.

 

Out of curiosity where did you read the first italicized quote?

I agree 4473 records “belong” to the FFL. They are regularly inspected by ATF agents with the authority to inspect any snd all aspects of the business of the FFL, not just 4473s.

As I previously showed, if law enforcement (cops, sheriff, state patrol) want 4473 information pertaining to a crime they go through the ATF to get it. And the FFL has no more than 24 bourse to supply the requested information. The ATF is always the middle man.

I’m not sure why the ATF inspector would wish to remove records from the FFL. I also don’t know if a federal judge would grant a warrant to do so. Good question but I’ve never heard of it even theoretically.

But the ATF can inspect 4473 records at any time during business hour unannounced.

So short answer—

The ATF can inspect records on -site at their demand. If not allowed into the business they will terminate the FFL.

If they wish to remove all the 4473 records I have no idea. Certainly there would have to be a reason like gross non compliance of the FFL and I would guess a federal judge might issue a warrant? Not sure at all on the warrant.


My original point to Chris was that all information about the movement of the firearm through the supply chain is easily accessible as is the information on the 4473. The 4473 info requests must go through the ATF and FFL though.

 

It appears he is talking about removal of records from an FFL. Access to the information contained in the 4473 does not require any warrant.

Removal of form 4473s from the FFL without consent (only a fool would consent to giving all 4473 to an ATF agent) may require a warrant. I’ve no good answer as I’ve never heard of such a thing happening.

 

@Hotdogr,

Forgot to mention I agree 4473 forms are not a registry. They were intentionally created to avoid existence of a registry.

 

there is no central data base of 4473s. iF one existed, that would be illegal registration

 

There are over 800 million 4473s located in one facility which can be searched by the authorities

 

For what purpose are you suggesting?

 

Imagine if there really are 800 million 4473s at the NTC. That means there are 800 million records there on about 250 million firearms (firearms first sold after 1968 ). Plus there are all the 4473s stored in FFLs. Plus all the ones that have been destroyed. Does anyone know how many total 4473s have existed/been filled out? The number must be astronomical and there must be an average of at least 5 or more 4473s per post 1968 firearm. That sounds impossible to me.

Does anyone know how many 4473s have existed?

 

You still haven't told us what those facts are.

We all know what you meant, I'm just waiting for you to go on and say it.

 

So before 1994, a violent criminal who has just been released from prison could lie and say that they have never been charged with a crime and buy a gun?

 

Essentially, yes. And in 1950’s and early 1960’s they just bought one no questions asked. What fascinates me is that when any child, felon, or mentally ill person in America could buy firearms through the mail or anywhere else with NO questions asked or background check, the firearm homicide rate was less than HALF what it is today

 

I assume that this is not an argument for removing background checks.

 

Have I advocated for removal of background checks? PF would be more fun if people responded to what I post instead of creating armies of strawmen.

 

When exactly did I say that you were making an argument for removing background checks?

 

To be fair you didn’t. You assumed the opposite in fact. Apologies from me to you. I forget sometimes your posts are two-tiered (utilizing the conscious and subconscious) attempts to encourage thought in third parties, which I greatly admire and appreciate.

 

They threw the book at him:

 

It's about time that the enabling parents of these shooters are being held somewhat responsible.


'Highland Park suspected shooter's father is charged with felony reckless conduct'
Source: CNN

"The father of the man accused of killing seven people and wounding dozens more at the Highland Park, Illinois, Fourth of July parade was arrested Friday and facing felony reckless conduct charges, prosecutors announced.

Robert Crimo, Jr., is charged with seven counts of felony reckless conduct, Lake County State’s Attorney Eric Rinehart said.

Prosecutors allege Crimo Jr. was “criminally reckless” when he signed his son’s application for an Illinois Firearm Owners Identification card nearly three years before the massacre, which is required to purchase a gun in Illinois."


Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/16/us/highland-park-shooting-suspect-father-charges/index.html