A don't ask-don't tell policy I can live with!

https://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=3...s-concealed-carry&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory

It's really no ones business and just like every other place where guns are allowed to be carried concealed, it won't be an issue. Things will just go on operating quietly and calmly like any other non-gunfree zone.

 

Liberals/anti-gunners don't care that concealed carry individuals carry in public all the time with no issues. They must be too primitive minded to understand that guns are just tools and not evil spirits that posses the carrier.

They may also be afraid that a teacher might just kill a sociopath before he kills numerous victims. That might stall their gun free utopian dream.

 

you are right. the left has proven time and time again that individuals are subordinate to the "Greater good" and if a few dead children help further the ban agenda, then the gun banners are not going to have any problem with such bloodshed. In fact a bunch of gun banners probably pray daily for new massacres when the gun ban agenda is foundering in congress or state capitols

 

Here's a point I'd like to bring up.

One of the main complaints about school officals being armed (openly or not), is the gun grabbers saying "Well, if teachers have guns that means they could just start shooting students. Omg omg omg."

The obvious answer to that is: "WHATS STOPPING THEM FROM DOING IT IN A GUN FREE SCHOOL?"

Any teacher that wanted to start blazing away in class could do so now, regardless of "no gun" signs, policies, or anything else.

Apparently they have images of guns sitting on the shoulders of people whispering death and destruction into their ears a la The Shining.

 

I would think that for parents it would follow more along the lines of the teachers setting an example ... "Did you hear Mr. Jones, the PhysEd teacher
is carrying a gun ... wouldn't it be cool to carry one to school as well ...".
I could see where that might become a problem.

I'm on the fence on this issue. It's always a race in the world of gun laws. Does the teacher go crazy and start shooting? Does a kid get hold of teachers gun and start shooting? Does the teacher shoot an active shooter and stop greater tragedy? The race is on.

All we know is that something stupid looms ahead.

 

You gun guys need to reign it in a bit here.

First of all, nobody is trying to "grab" your guns.

Second of all, your scenario is ridiculous. We do not have a problem today with teachers blazing away in schools.

 

Do people have a right to know when other people legally carry a concealed handgun?
Obviously not.

 

Hillary just said she wanted an Australian style mandatory gun buyback. (yes, she backtracked on that, but her first instinct was to ban). To say that gun control folks don't want to eventually confiscate guns is specious.

 

The scenario is ridiculous, but that is what is being said by the liberal media.

They're saying that they want to keep guns out of schools because it may lead to teachers spraying rounds through the hallway. In another related thread someone who was a teacher said they wouldn't want to teach in a college where CCW was allowed because he might get shot.

My response to both of these situations is: "What's stopping someone from coming into your classroom today and shooting you?". The answer is of course, nothing.

It's entirely perception. The perception is that having a no gun policy and "gun free" zones somehow makes you safe, but it couldn't be further from the truth.

If someone is willing to risk their own death in a mass killing, or a targeted killing, policies and signs aren't going to do a damn thing about it.

 

There is evidence that having guns around does end up with people being shot on occasion - even when the person who owns the gun is perceived to be a solid citizen.

The goals of safe storage and rapid, easy availability are at odds. Maybe in the future sometime it will be possible to get new technology accepted by the NRA to allow only one shooter per gun, or whatever, but it seems the NRA is uninterested at present.

In some locations it is necessary to actually screen for weapons. That's fairly typical around court houses and some other government offices. We do that at some schools, too. I would support more screening to keep guns out, but I don't support efforts to move more guns into our schools.

It's better if we keep the stretches of the imagination to a limit.

My daughter teaches high school in the Bronx. I care about this issue.

 

I understand your concerns, but they're far more perception than anything else. Those studies indicate that when a gun is present a shooting is more likely to take place. That is true. A car owner is also more likely to get into a car accident than someone that walks.

Teachers and students are not safer in gun free zones. There is nothing stopping anyone from walking into a police department and opening fire either, or a grocery store, or anywhere else. It is purely a perception that you are safer. It makes you FEEL safer, but in reality you are not.

Now there is certainly an argument to ensure proper training and education, and any teacher that is uneasy around guns should not be forced to participate. You don't want an untrained person who is not capable. On the flip side there are those who are very capable. Those people are often more capable than the police (and security guards) who eventually arrive and end up shooting the place up anyway.

If you can have qualified staff on site that can at least put an active shooter on the defense, then the ability to mitigate the situation is improved.

Do you remember the first time you drove a car? It was probably pretty terrifying. That's how people feel who have no experience with firearms feel, but it doesn't mean that others aren't perfectly capable of safely and responsibly bearing arms in the defense of your children.

 

I do not agree with your first contention. I see no justification for the belief that adding guns to schools will make them safer than they are. Screening to keep guns OUT of school might help. Also, other directions (anti-bullying progress, emergency procedures, better intel, etc.) can help. We should probably be paying more attention to students who are on their way to failure.

On occasion there are civilians with guns in or near mass shooting situations, but that has made no difference.

I TOTALLY disagree with the "more capable than police" comment. Police have a range of weapons, experience, training and backup. And, if you find cases where that is not true, it only means that police should be better armed, trained ... and paid. On the other hand, many states hand out CCWs like candy.

 

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I agree that the focus should be on identifying violent people, since only the combination of violent person + weapon = killing innocents. Unfortunately violent people go through prison like a revolving door.

You can believe there aren't people more qualified than the police but I assure you it's true. There are millions of people out there with actual combat experience. Many police only touch their weapons when they are required to qualify.

Even in the Marines we had guys that were borderline pizza-box wearing "unq'ers", but even they are more capable than a lot of police. SWAT may be a different issue, but not your average police officer.

 

I doubt most school shootings are done by those who frequent our prison system. Let me know, though.

You are mistaken about my point. I'm sure there are wonderful shooters out there.

The problem is that we need police who are trained to handle situations in our schools and other public places. Our schools are not war zones - we only say that when we want to exaggerate a point.

We need those who are trained in these situations, have appropriate tools (lethal/nonlethal weapons, intel, communication, access to surveillance, etc.), have backup, etc.

The average citizen has little to none of that. The average guy returning from some combat zone doesn't even have all that. And, again, the NRA insists that we hand out CCWs like candy to people who need to stay the heck away from our children.

 

And there is evidence that not having guns around ends up with innocent people dead or injured by some bad or deranged person with a gun. Oddly enough the overwhelming evidence in active shooter scenarios, it is a person with a gun who creates the situation where the bad person is stopped. Gun free zones are bad news period.

It is considered safe storage and rapid, easy availability if a CCL holder has a weapon in a concealed place on their body. That is not at odds! As to the NRA, I don't believe my OP mentioned the NRA.

I am all for providing trained professionals and screening equipment at all schools, I mean my kids life is worth more than any politicians life. Why hasn't the anti-gun faction of the elected officials proposed funding such a effort. At least the pro-gun faction has proposed something to protect our most precious resources. My belief is that it doesn't fit the utopian belief that if we get rid of guns all murder would cease.

My wife is a teacher and my kids are in school, I care about the issue too

 

Well most school shootings aren't done by your average felon, but school shootings make up a tiny percentage of shootings. But I agree, the mentally ill are definitely a problem.

My point is that you don't need to wear a uniform to have that training. The people who TEACH the police are often civilians.

Citizens who aren't trained and capable shouldn't be expected to protect anyone but themselves, I mean that's primarily the purpose of a CCW, being responsible for your own security.

 

That's reasonably consistent with my view, too.

The thing about police is that we hire them to be trained experts and we buy them and support them with cool hardware, personnel and intel. If that doesn't compete with the general public, then I think that is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

Why stop at guns, why don't we all walk around with vials of the ebola virus.

The vial and liquid in said form doesn't kill anyone, only if someone break the vial and gets someone in contact with the contagion does the virus actually do its work.

We could use vials of the ebola virus to defend ourselves from criminals and death.

Gun rights people are merchants of death and sadness.

 

That may be, but I'm just saying that wearing a uniform doesn't necessarily disqualify someone from having the experience and capability of at least slowing or containing an active shooter. At the very least it will force them to be more cautious and provide less opportunity for an unopposed free-for-all massacre.

I'd feel much better knowing someone was actively resisting a shooter on site, instead of relying on the police to get there as fast as they can. I know they do their best, but short of teleportation they're not going to be fast enough.

There are many of us out there that would risk our lives to help prevent something like that from happening if we were able. Many have done so unarmed and with no hope of success. Imagine what they could accomplish if the field were leveled.

 

I would think armed guards or personnel well trained of course would be a great help for kids feeling safer.I mean look at all the shootings that have happened at gun free areas,maybe the kids should be polled and ask them which way they would feel safer.I would also like to know if there has been any incidents at these schools that allow the personnel carry?I know it won't be welcomed with open arms,but we have tried it their way with gun free zones,how about trying it our way.

 

Yes we all worship Jobu and sacrifice rum to him on the regular.

 

T

Not an unexpected nonsensical assertion by a utopian dream weaver.

 

Naw the real merchants of death and sadness are the anti-gun crowd people. Taking away an equalizer for the weaker citizens when it is a proven fact that law enforcement people cannot be everywhere is akin to saying "we don't care if you die" we just want guns gone. That is seriously sad, As to your Ebola analogy, that was just silly.

 

Ebola takes too long to stop a threat for effective self defense.

Gun rights people like the ability to defend themselves. A modern handgun is currently the best device for self defense that has been invented.