A world without America

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Crawdadr, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    So I put forth this question. If the United States stepped back from the world by removing all its forces, stepped down from the Security Council in the UN, and instituted a Switzerland style neutral diplomacy. What would the effects be on the world?

    I think this could be an excellent topic to explore the different possibilities for the world and the USA. There are many in the world that resent America's dominance. There are many in the USA that want this. But have we really had a national and international discussion on the possible ramifications of such a decision. Both good and bad.

    Your thoughts?
     
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  2. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Probably the same thing as just prior to WW1.
     
  3. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    So you think a multitude of bilateral defense treaties, nationalistic colonial powers vying for control, and a emerging new world political philosophy causing revolutions?
     
  4. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    A lot of foreigners would start fighting each other while we watch on live TV. I'm guessing that China would start annexing everything from Taiwan to Japan, and probably oil rich countries because they need oil.

    Europe would stay much the same because a hundred nukes might as well be a million. There might be some interesting developments between India and Pakistan that might worry anybody downwind of what would happen between them, Venezuela would be gobbled up by anybody who wants that particular hell hole, and the UN would do nothing but have emergency sessions concerning how best to combat global warming.

    It's really hard to say, except that China would definitely take advantage of the power vacuum left by America's absence.

    I
     
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  5. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A world without America means a world without Europe.
     
  6. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    So you would say Asia and South America would begin fighting and forming larger countries. With China expanding and actually trying to conquer Japan. Taiwan I agree would be taken, but I dont know if they have the ability to take Japan. Another war between India and Pakistan is definitely likely.
     
  7. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Interesting do you think Russia would try and invade or do you think our presence as kept some kind of internal threat at bay?
     
  8. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    In an ideal world, I would want to see the United States pull its military out of policing the world. But to be honest, that might lead to China to fill that vacuum.

    I'm against the United States becoming an isolationist state, but I also feel that too often the United States is involved in the world for the wrong reasons. For example, instead of propping up an Islamic fundamentalist regime in Saudi Arabia with weapons so they can get their petroleum, they should work with other democratic countries to stop genocides in Africa, Myanmar and elsewhere for the sake of shared humanity. First through diplomacy and as a last resort with military intervention with approval of the majority of the world's countries.

    That's the simplest way I can put it. In an ideal world though, if there can be a consensus with other major powers not to interfere with the affairs of smaller countries, then yes, I can see a world without a single US military base on foreign soil.
     
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  9. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If there's no US, then yes, Russia would dominate that region.
     
  10. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    Japan has no nukes, and neither does south Korea. Those are both very easy pickings for China or maybe even Russia if they are still smarting over losing to Japan. The only thing that might keep that from happening is the fact that Japan doesn't really have anything worth taking.
     
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  11. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    I would think that they have the economy in the EU and tech to create a fighting force rather quickly. Russia has a large problem with financing its military and its infrastructure would be strained to do a full on invasion of Europe. Beside England and France have Nukes. Wouldnt that give them pause?
     
  12. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    So, what if China fills the vacuum is this a good or bad thing for the world it if is a likely scenario then that must be one of the things people want.
     
  13. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Do they not have nukes? I mean they SAY they dont, besides launching nukes so close to your territory seems rather risky.
     
  14. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not a chance. Russia wouldn't adhere to the rules of war. They'd fight dirty and the Europeans would lay down and take it.

    No way Europe could ever take on Russia.

    However, I wish they could. They just don't have the balls.
     
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  15. Tergara

    Tergara Active Member

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    I think we would see a lot of territorial expansion from regional powers, like Russia, China and Iran.

    In terms of Russia, I see the Baltic states as gone. Poland, which is in the way of Russia invading, would definitely put up a fight. The Russians may fight dirty, but Poland isn't a country that really forgets and has dealt with foreign powers before. It would be more a question of whether or not the rest of NATO would live up to its obligations. I do not see England or France using nukes to defend themselves until an invasion starts and it is a use it or lose it scenario.
     
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  16. Tergara

    Tergara Active Member

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    Oh and you would see the sea lanes of the world change most likely, causing an increase in the cost of goods. A lot of places in the world are open because the US puts its foot down anytime anyone tries and closes them, essentially daring countries to declare war on the US by sending a carrier group through the area.
     
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  17. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you mean we will become totally nationalistic and will not pick and choose any ally to align with?
     
  18. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Many of the Europeans in this board clam Russia is not a threat any more to Europe. .
     
  19. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Basically, think of us as a Giant super rich Switzerland.
     
  20. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hah, I hope for their sake that they are right.
     
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  21. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree, yet I wonder if the Germans would be bigger threat to the EU then Russia if we left?
     
  22. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know they don't.

    The thing about nukes is that you don't have to use them for them to be effective. You just have them and start snapping your fingers. Actually using them is something that nobody wants, which is why I think China would snatch up what they can as peacefully as possible. The only real wildcard would be the Korean peninsula. Almost anything is possible, from Kim Jung Un keeping south Korea in much the same situation as China has done with Hong Kong, to just turning the whole bloody place into a communist hell hole. They've got nukes and the ability to launch them at Beijing, which means China would probably play the waiting game to see how everything pans out.

    In the end, I don't think it would be the end of the world. Hell, the Philippines might actually prosper under Chinese rule.
     
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  23. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It would be like this on a bigger scale.

    "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
     
  24. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    Well to be honest, I did not think that fully through until now. China has an economic rather than military strategy for world domination. They don't make military threats to countries beyond their immediate borders. Instead they invest their resources to the economic development of far away countries in the Americas and Africa.That way they have strong trade ties with those countries so that their people can prosper even more. It would be a mixed bag of a result because some regimes for their disregard of human rights are undeserving of Chinese aid and less countries would speak out against China's own wrongdoings. However, it would mean a more unified world where people would not want to fight each other because we are mutually dependent economically.

    Countries immediately bordering China will have to look out though. China has boarder disputes with India and they have territorial claims to to the South China Sea. China will also invade Taiwan. China is interested in increasing its borders to get more land and resources to accommodate their growing population.

    Personally I'm not worried about China possibly interfering with affairs in my country. I'd rather have Chinese Yuan funding a new railway system and building bridges in my country compared to a US military base blocks away from my house 'for my own good'.
     
  25. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Well lets consider though, China has acted in this way only since America has been the top dog. We have not seen a communist China with no check and balance. Tibet for instance would say China is not such a good neighbor. With no USA to worry about China would be able to flex its military might against its southern neighbors like Vietnam without fear. So yah they do have to look out. Many of those countries I hope would say having a United States strutting around with bases is preferable to having Chinese soldiers raising flags in their capitols.
     

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