Abortion is in the constitution.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Dec 2, 2021.

  1. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    According to reality we aren't.
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I read exactly what you said and bolded above.

    And again I ask the law says you ONLY have a right to use lethal force against someone else if that someone else is threatening you with IMMINENT death or serious injury. Where does it say that if I am merely violating your bodily autonomy you can kill me? You are claiming the right to bodily autonomy trumps the right to life, where exactly do you get that?

    In the history of our country and our society the right to life is the preeminent right.

    However
    Personal Autonomy


    The Supreme Court does not use the phrase "personal autonomy" very often. Unlike privacy, it is not a fundamental right. As such, it is still a very limited concept regarding its impact on legal jurisprudence.

    In Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992), the Court emphasized the impact that Roe v. Wade (1973) had on the importance of personal autonomy, especially with regard to reproductive rights. The Casey Court wrote, "f Roe is seen as stating a rule of personal autonomy . . . [then the Supreme Court's] post-Roe decisions accord with Roe's view that a State's interest in the protection of life falls short of justifying any plenary override of individual liberty claims . . . "[N]o erosion of principle going to liberty or personal autonomy has left Roe's central holding a doctrinal remnant."

    In Washington v. Glucksberg (1997) however, the Court appeared to oppose the concept that personal autonomy creates personal protections for individuals. "And although Casey recognized that many of the rights and liberties protected by the Due Process Clause sound in personal autonomy, it does not follow that any and all important, intimate, and personal decisions are so protected. Casey did not suggest otherwise."

    Evidently, the significance of a right to personal autonomy is far from certain.

    Further Reading
    For more on personal autonomy, see Part IV of this John Marshall Law Review article. See also this Yale Law School Legal Scholarship Repository article.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/personal_autonomy
     
  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually according to our founding principles we are.
     
  4. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. However, the constitutionally protected rights of the host mother supersede the rights of the unborn fetus at all times since it is essentially part of her until birth.
     
  5. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Since rights can be taken and given up they can't be unalienable.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a rambling incoherent mess ... repetitive accusation .. over and over .. fortunately .. you do get around to attempting to substantiate these vacuous assertions.

    Now .. if this was our first meeting .. but is not .. and your master continuously hands it to you .. over .. and over . -- as will be done again this time .. so show some respect Padawan.

    Assumed premises you've made:

    ,

    An "Assumed Premise fallacy" is when you state the premise " vax unconstitional" - and do not follow with rational that supports claim- shows claim true .. now aside from the fact that I have previously given you scads of rational -- none of which you were able to respond coherently

    but in this case we are talking about Lawrence/MSNBC - and the sin of omission .. failing to present "The Science" .. of which you are blissfully unaware .. but that is another matter .. this is about your beloved Lawrence .. remember ..

    and do learn what an assumed premise fallacy is .. Padawan. Its up to the state to show Constitutionality .. your are the one wants to engage in "Forced Medical Treatment" .. demonizing a certain sector - - labeling them as "unclean" .. taking away their livelihoods ..

    YOU -- and buddy Lawrence need come up with constitutional argument .. where is it .. you havn't the first clue where to begin ... despite attempts to educate you previously .. slow on the uptake .. or what ?

    No liberty at stake here .. nothing to see .. but "Utilitarian justification" of which you have no clue .. and our next topic.


    Good grief no . not those liberals .. never hear any harm reduction arguments for law coming from those clowns .. "if it saves one life" never out of the lips .. no "What till increase happiness/ reduce harm" for the collective going on ..

    As stated . the entire "VAX MANDATE" is utilitarian justification .. For LAW .. sorry for the technically correct language mate .. but you should know this term by now .. what it means . and so on .


    If the shoe fits . the shoe fits .. by definition was a kangaroo - politically motivated (clown show) adventure .. and have handed it to you and the rest of the gang on this so many times it isn't funny .. Padawan..



    No defects to begin with but ..happy to further your path to enlightement .. slow going as it may be.
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The right to life being the HIGHERS INHERITED right we have nothing supersedes your right to life. And no the baby in the womb is never a part of the mother, the specific purpose of the womb and placenta is to keep them the separate individuals they are.
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    As far as life, it can only be taken away if you violate another's right to life and then you can only be sanctioned when a jury finds you guilty of that crime.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  9. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Its very simple, if the woman doesn't want it inhabiting her body she has every right to have it removed even if this results in its death
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The law states that you can ONLY take the life of another human being if that human being is threatening your life with IMMINENT danger. And the right to life is our highest inherited right, I see nothing about what you are speaking of as an inherited right higher than life.
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or she has every right not to start it growing in her body.

    If you bring your baby on a boat with you, you don't have a right to dump the baby overboard when you change your mind and decide you don't want it.
    It may be your boat, but you don't have the right to dump the baby overboard.
    You'll have to wait until the boat returns to land and civilization first and the baby can be safely delivered up to others.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  12. cyndibru

    cyndibru Active Member Past Donor

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    Oh, I completely agree with that Constitutional analysis. Even those honest scholars who favor abortion rights agree that Roe was bad law. I was merely pointing out that the Mississippi law at the center of this case isn't extreme when compared to American and Western majority sentiment.
     
  13. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is the end results of both?
     
  14. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevent.
     
  15. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    We're talking about a woman's body, not a boat.
     
  16. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    One is murder the other is not.
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But we all recognize she can't kick a baby out of her boat. So that's a start.
     
  18. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A real final solution huh?
     
  19. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Which has nothing to do with the fact that if the woman doesn't want it inhabiting her body she has every right to have it removed even if this results in its death.
     
  20. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tell me why killing the mother and the unborn baby is murder, but scraping a human being into a trash can or cutting it up for parts isn't.
     
  21. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Because murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a human.
     
  22. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Why go off on some long-winded rant instead of just admit you are wrong?

    Your thread title specifically says abortion is in the Constitution.

    You presented it as factual not as an opinion now you can sit there and try to parse words and try to argue that it's an opinion and I'd agree but you didn't state it as an opinion.

    Even as an opinion you are still incorrect.

    If I state freedom of speech is in the Constitution, that's not an opinion it's a fact...

    But I'm not in the habit of just taking my opinion and stating that it's in the Constitution.

    Of course you could always just claim that making up a bunch of BS is a part of Liberty and therefore making up BS is in the Constitution too.
     
  23. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is after you rip it out of the womb. Farm raised chickens get more consideration. It's not so much the abortion that bothers me, all the right people are having them and giving mankind a break from left wing lunacy. It's using tax dollars to fund it, If they want an abortion let them pay for it.
     
  24. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You need to read the act.
     
  25. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Typical con, cares more about money than innocent life.
     
    FoxHastings likes this.

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