Abortion is in the constitution.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Dec 2, 2021.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is this BS response .. a bunch of name calling and false accusations .. not a single word addressing the points made .. as if this constitutes rebuttle of something -- then you claiming that this rebuttle stands.

    What is it that you have rebutted -

    1) the fact that you don't know what "Assumed Premise" fallacy is .. or did you rebut the support for claim somehow .. Lawrence engaging in the "Sin of Omission" .. w/r to Mandate --
    2) Lawrence is a raging Utilitarian
    3) Russiagate was a Kangaroo - political clown show.

    Or did you figure jumping up and down crying "Waaaaa Waaaa Waaaa" and name calling was some kind of rebuttle ?
     
  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Did I say that?

    No.

    Now, try again with something on point.
     
  3. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    YES, pregnancy can cause serious bodily harm...and there is only ONE way to stop the harm.

    You do NOT have to fear for your life to use self defense...

    NO one is obligated to be harmed by another.
     
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    It kills a human fetus.... a human (adjective) fetus is NOT A human (noun) being as in legal person...


    In the English language there are nouns and adjectives....they are different words because they mean different things.
     
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    Do you believe women have a right to defend themselves?

    NOTHING, that's why women also get to defend themselves from harm....

    :) Good, then you agree pregnant women can DEFEND themselves from the harm caused by the ZEF....
     
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    YUPPERS! And that's why a fetus, IF declared a ""person"", canNOT do anything it wants like use another's body to sustain it's life.

    NO one can.
     
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    NO.

    ALL American citizens shall have the right to bodily autonomy....we don't want slave states...
     
  8. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    What you said was that with our Constitution (and Declaration) liberty a woman has the constitutional freedom to abort. I said that was intellectually inane.
     
  9. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    What is it doing???
     
  10. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Where does the Constitution say or imply such??
     
  11. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    What specific harm is the woman protecting herself from in 98% of abortions?? I have no problem with abortions to save the woman from real honest-to goodness harm.
     
  12. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I am merely pointing your debate defects. That is not name calling. Criticism is not name calling.

    The primary one is your name calling, your emotionally tinged and sophomoric rhetoric, cheap shots, and assorted tactics which are the province of those who are either novices are have debate skills, or both. That is a material fact, and a valid one to use in my criticism of your debate skills, which are very poor. If you could improve the caliber or your argument, I'd be happy to engage, but not to such rant filled rhetoric you are offering.

    And please abstain from projecting. I have not called you any names.

    Please improve your spelling, thank you. One error is a typo, but repeated several times indicates weak debate skills.

    I believe I indicated what your assumed premises were, for your edification.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    YUPPERS! And that's why a fetus, IF declared a ""person"", canNOT do anything it wants like use another's body to sustain it's life.



    Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:


    • exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
    • altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
    • nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
    • heartburn and indigestion
    • constipation
    • weight gain
    • dizziness and light-headedness
    • bloating, swelling, fluid retention
    • hemmorhoids
    • abdominal cramps
    • yeast infections
    • congested, bloody nose
    • acne and mild skin disorders
    • skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
    • mild to severe backache and strain
    • increased headaches
    • difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
    • increased urination and incontinence
    • bleeding gums
    • pica
    • breast pain and discharge
    • swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
      (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
    • extreme pain on delivery
    • hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
    • continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)
    Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

    • stretch marks (worse in younger women)
    • loose skin
    • permanent weight gain or redistribution
    • abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
    • pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
    • changes to breasts
    • increased foot size
    • varicose veins
    • scarring from episiotomy or c-section
    • other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
    • increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
    • loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
    • higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
    • newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)
    Occasional complications and side effects:

    • complications of episiotomy
    • spousal/partner abuse
    • hyperemesis gravidarum
    • temporary and permanent injury to back
    • severe scarring requiring later surgery
      (especially after additional pregnancies)
    • dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
    • pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
    • eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
    • gestational diabetes
    • placenta previa
    • anemia (which can be life-threatening)
    • thrombocytopenic purpura
    • severe cramping
    • embolism (blood clots)
    • medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
    • diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
    • mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
    • serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
    • hormonal imbalance
    • ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
    • broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
    • hemorrhage and
    • numerous other complications of delivery
    • refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
    • aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
    • severe post-partum depression and psychosis
    • research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
    • research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
    • research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease
    Less common (but serious) complications:

    • peripartum cardiomyopathy
    • cardiopulmonary arrest
    • magnesium toxicity
    • severe hypoxemia/acidosis
    • massive embolism
    • increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
    • molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
      (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
    • malignant arrhythmia
    • circulatory collapse
    • placental abruption
    • obstetric fistula
    More permanent side effects:


    • future infertility
    • permanent disability
    • death."""""""""""""""""""
     
  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

    • exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
    • altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
    • nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
    • heartburn and indigestion
    • constipation
    • weight gain
    • dizziness and light-headedness
    • bloating, swelling, fluid retention
    • hemmorhoids
    • abdominal cramps
    • yeast infections
    • congested, bloody nose
    • acne and mild skin disorders
    • skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
    • mild to severe backache and strain
    • increased headaches
    • difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
    • increased urination and incontinence
    • bleeding gums
    • pica
    • breast pain and discharge
    • swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
      (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
    • extreme pain on delivery
    • hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
    • continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)
    Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

    • stretch marks (worse in younger women)
    • loose skin
    • permanent weight gain or redistribution
    • abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
    • pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
    • changes to breasts
    • increased foot size
    • varicose veins
    • scarring from episiotomy or c-section
    • other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
    • increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
    • loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
    • higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
    • newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)
    Occasional complications and side effects:

    • complications of episiotomy
    • spousal/partner abuse
    • hyperemesis gravidarum
    • temporary and permanent injury to back
    • severe scarring requiring later surgery
      (especially after additional pregnancies)
    • dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
    • pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
    • eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
    • gestational diabetes
    • placenta previa
    • anemia (which can be life-threatening)
    • thrombocytopenic purpura
    • severe cramping
    • embolism (blood clots)
    • medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
    • diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
    • mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
    • serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
    • hormonal imbalance
    • ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
    • broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
    • hemorrhage and
    • numerous other complications of delivery
    • refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
    • aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
    • severe post-partum depression and psychosis
    • research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
    • research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
    • research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease
    Less common (but serious) complications:

    • peripartum cardiomyopathy
    • cardiopulmonary arrest
    • magnesium toxicity
    • severe hypoxemia/acidosis
    • massive embolism
    • increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
    • molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
      (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
    • malignant arrhythmia
    • circulatory collapse
    • placental abruption
    • obstetric fistula
    More permanent side effects:


    • future infertility
    • permanent disability
    • death."""""""""""""""""""
     
  15. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    If you choose to perceive an insult then that's on you.

    When I speak I tend to say what I mean and mean what I say I guess that's not for everyone.
     
  16. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:


    ALL American citizens shall have the right to bodily autonomy....



    So you don't think the Constitution protects us from being bought and sold like slaves??? What!!??
     
  17. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    A human tumor is not vegetable or mineral or some other species of animal and it will remains so as long as it lives. Now show how the addition of the tag human makes something a being.
     
  18. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    SO you are saying that there is no constitutionally right to prevent me from taking blood or organs from you, such that it doesn't threaten your life, in order to save my own?
     
  19. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    So what? So the woman's rights (all of them including her entire physical body) are protected by the Constitution. That's what we're discussing right?

    Nothing above has anything to do with the woman's protected rights nor is the highlighted true. Not only is the fetus growing within and a part of the mother, along with the placenta but it is also the property of the mother, along with all other body parts, heart, brain, kidney and pimple on her ass, etc. As explained in another post, rights are derived from property and the first piece of property everyone is born with is their body and everything within it. Once a fetus is out of a woman's body, it is a fully autonomous human being complete with all rights protected by the Constitution. Prior to that, it is a fetus that is fully a part of and the property of the host mother, whose rights are integral to her body.

    The DOI is not law, the Constitution is and it is quite clear about protected rights.

    Here we go again with what the Constitution does not say. The Constitution is written in plain English, please read it and stick to what it does say, not what it doesn't say. What it doesn't say is irrelevant and not part of the Constitution. A woman has the protected right under the 9th Amendment to undergo an abortion, rejecting any part of her (her property) she doesn't want to be a part of her.

    Having said all that I am not in favor of abortion but it's not up to me or anyone else to dictate what one can and cannot do with their body or any other personal property.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  20. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not insofar as it being consistent with bodily autonomy, privacy, and liberty thereof.
     
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  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Generally speaking, the exceptions are where such is obvious.

    I guess not everyone is able to perceive the obvious.

    And, don't let me catch you not saying precisely what you mean, from here on out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  22. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    You accuse me of insulting you when I did no such thing then you go on to do the very thing you accuse me of.

    I get it man you're mad because I called out your b*******.

    If you don't want people to call you on it don't put a lie in your thread title.

    Don't get mad at me because you tried to mislead the board.


    The fact is nowhere in the constitution is abortion specifically mentioned.

    You don't need to get emotional about it.
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Sophomoric rhetoric, "cheap" shots "assorted tactics" is name calling ..unless accompanied by example .. you have been whining like this for at least a few posts .. no material .. no ability to address the material before you..

    and to top it off then accuse me of projecting . what is it I am projecting on you . . other than the above .. which you continuously prove..

    1) vax mandate .. Lawrence .. has no clue about the constitution .. guilty of sin of omission
    2) Utilitarian Blue Wingnut .. an anathema to the Constitutional republic .. by definition
    3) Russiagate --- Sin after sin .. proping up the political clown show narrative .. like its no tomorrow ..

    You should find better sheep to worship .. albeit .. to be honest .. Lawrence is better than most of the others on the blue parade .. on bended knee to serve the Blue God ..

    Now what was it you had to say .. something that isn't name calling or fallacy .. desperate attempt to demonize messenger .. that sort of thing .. what you got :)
     
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  24. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Well by God it's a wonder any of us are born alive.
     
    RodB likes this.
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And so are other bodies, we are created with the right to our lives and one person can only take the life of another if that person is threatening their life.

    It has everything to do with it and the facts, the baby in the womb is NOT a part of the mother. It is an autonomous human being which resides in the protection of the womb. The mother does no exert any control over it nor is it needed. The baby grows on it's own, it reacts on it's own, it learns on it own inside the womb. The mother is mere supply nutrients and water and oxygen which is done by the baby's actions. Our fundamental rights are inherited.

    It espouses the principles and rights of human beings on which we are founded.


    And still the Constitution says nothing about the killing of an innocent life that is not threatening your life as a right does it. And in fact leaves that up to the States and the People to decide. And the baby in the womb is NOT her property unless you believe slavery still exist.

    Why not, what do you have against abortion?
     

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