Abortion is in the constitution.

FoxHastings said: ↑
FoxHastings said: ↑
ALL American citizens shall have the right to bodily autonomy....
So you don't think the Constitution protects us from being bought and sold like slaves??? What!!??

A person becomes a slave when their bodily autonomy is taken away, their body is no longer theirs...that is slavery.

 

That isn't a fact....a fetus is not A human being as in legal person with rights.

I can easily face the fact that an abortion kills a human fetus....I have no problem with that.

There is nothing to "concede".

Of course you can use another's body to sustain your life IF THAT PERSON CONSENTS.

I guess you didn't know what "consent" meant.

 

It is a fact that a human fetus is a human being. Your red herring doesn't change that fact.

Thus you support killing human beings. Try as you might, there's no tap dancing around it.

You already have.

 

You're confused by being backed into that corner. I'll make this very simple, It's either alive or dead when in the mother's womb. If it's alive then killing it is murder, that's why I asked if it was dead while in the womb. Even the fetal protection laws consider killing it in the womb as murder. Yes, I already know those laws don't apply to abortions, it defies logic that they don't.

I am 64 years old and never had any kids, that was a choice and made sure I didn't.

 

You are free to define any word or situation that is partially reasonable and suits your cause.

 

Uh, what did I concede?

Did you concede to the fact """Of course you can use another's body to sustain your life IF THAT PERSON CONSENTS.

I guess you didn't know what "consent" meant."""


I stumped ya there and you just can't concede I did

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
A person becomes a slave when their bodily autonomy is taken away, their body is no longer theirs...that is slavery.

No, I am not....and neither are you...

Can you refute the post of mine you quoted ?


""A person becomes a slave when their bodily autonomy is taken away, their body is no longer theirs...that is slavery.""


Have you figured out what "pregnant" means yet???

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
NO ONE EVER SAID A FETUS WASN'T ALIVE UNTIL BIRTH.....NO ONE....

You couldn't "admit " hat NO ONE SAID the fetus was dead...yet YOU claimed they did!!!!




NO ONE EVER SAID A FETUS WASN'T ALIVE UNTIL BIRTH.....NO ONE....WHICH IS WHAT YOU CLAIMED.

You couldn't "admit " hat NO ONE SAID the fetus was dead...yet YOU claimed they did!!!!


LOL, riight on schedule ...none of your arguments work so it's the Anti-Choicer's winding down PREDICTABLE statements:

""" I like Democrat "precious lives" being killed, I don't mind any "precious life" being killed as long as it doesn't cost me any money since money is the most important thing"

.

Only in your vivid imagination.

The fetus is alive until it is killed in abortion. Why is that confusing you?

No, it isn't and you have necver shown where it is....show the law that says abortion is murder..

Forum rules prevent a really great comeback on that line

 

That you CAN use another's body to sustain yourself.

I never argued to the contrary.

You guess wrong, just as you guessed wrong about my position on abortion.

You stumped yourself, perhaps.

 

The 9th Amendment says exactly:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

It definitely does not say what you claim it says and what you claim it doesn't say is irrelevant. Neither the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights contained within it confers any rights. What it does is protect ALL rights. The first 8 Amendments protect specific (enumerated) rights and the 9th Amendment protects all remaining (unenumerated) rights. And there's no "may" about it.

 

Nope IMMINENT threat a baby in the womb is not an IMMINENT threat of death or a SERIOUS bodily injury and THAT is what it takes to be able to use LETHAL force against another human being. And why do you postulate pregnancy makes women totally helpless mentally and physically, what an insult to women.

 

And when one poses an IMMINENT threat to the mothers life or SERIOUS bodily harm no one disputes abortion is the proper course if that is the ONLY way to end that IMMINENT threat so no need to keep posting your list of POSSIBLE harms including these.

• nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
• heartburn and indigestion
• constipation
• weight gain

Please explain how those pose an IMMINENT threat to the mothers life or SERIOUS bodily harm.

 

And says NOTHING about abortion does it. It says it is up to the people and the 10th further says the States which is what the lawsuit in Mississippi is about. Do you agree with the Constitution that it is not the Federal government which makes this determination but the People through their respective States?

And nowhere and no interpretation of the 9th or the 10th would grant someone the right to violate the rights of another human being such as killing that other human being, denying that other person their right to life which is explicitly stated in our founding document.

 

Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

• exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
• altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
• nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
• heartburn and indigestion
• constipation
• weight gain
• dizziness and light-headedness
• bloating, swelling, fluid retention
• hemmorhoids
• abdominal cramps
• yeast infections
• congested, bloody nose
• acne and mild skin disorders
• skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
• mild to severe backache and strain
• increased headaches
• difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
• increased urination and incontinence
• bleeding gums
• pica
• breast pain and discharge
• swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
  (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
• extreme pain on delivery
• hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
• continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

• stretch marks (worse in younger women)
• loose skin
• permanent weight gain or redistribution
• abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
• pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
• changes to breasts
• increased foot size
• varicose veins
• scarring from episiotomy or c-section
• other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
• increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
• loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
• higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
• newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:

• complications of episiotomy
• spousal/partner abuse
• hyperemesis gravidarum
• temporary and permanent injury to back
• severe scarring requiring later surgery
  (especially after additional pregnancies)
• dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
• pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
• eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
• gestational diabetes
• placenta previa
• anemia (which can be life-threatening)
• thrombocytopenic purpura
• severe cramping
• embolism (blood clots)
• medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
• diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
• mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
• serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
• hormonal imbalance
• ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
• broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
• hemorrhage and
• numerous other complications of delivery
• refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
• aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
• severe post-partum depression and psychosis
• research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
• research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
• research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:

• peripartum cardiomyopathy
• cardiopulmonary arrest
• magnesium toxicity
• severe hypoxemia/acidosis
• massive embolism
• increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
• molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
  (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
• malignant arrhythmia
• circulatory collapse
• placental abruption
• obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:

• future infertility
• permanent disability
• death."""""""""""""""""""

Pathetic to see you denigrate what pregnant women go through, DENYING the SCIENCE of pregnancy, by reducing that gigantic list to four items.

Everything on that vast list is imminent since the cause is inside the woman.

 

Not the phony slave issue again....................

If you are going to comment on my post do so in the context of what was discussed and how the issue according to the 9th amendment argument being made would simply revert back to the states and the people of those respective states.

 

I never denied it....I just didn't explain the OBVIOUS to you....I didn't think I would need to. That is the only place I was wrong, expecting understanding of the obvious.

 

It shouldn't...ALL American citizens shall have the right to bodily autonomy....we don't want slave states...

 

How does that trump our most fundamental and explicit right to our life? Why would a woman WANT an abortion and what exactly do you mean MUST have one, the vast majority of abortions are for convenience sake. Yes a woman can do with her body as she sees fits but simply wanting to have an orgasms through intercourse has it's other consequences and then another human being's life's is involved. Which is the higher right the right to an orgasm or the right to life?

 

Which is not a crime.

Nope, just hers.

Women have both the right to orgasm and the right to life...

 

You are conflating a specific text with the broad musings of a philosopher. Not the same thing.

So?

You didn't have to go through all that, I know what your argument is, and your argument

doesn't change the following fact:

DC banned hand guns. This we know happened, correct?

Someone sued because the claim was it infringed on the right described in the second amendment.

That someone won.

The point is, you can holler 'inalienable inherent rights' blah blah blah, into eternity, but that fellow would not have restored his right
without the government backing up that right ( via the courts ).

So, I really don't care where the right comes from, as long as there is an agency to back us up when we are infringed.

In other words, all that lofty talk doesn't mean squat without the gov backing it up.

Theoretically, philosophically, the rights are inherent, etc, but.....

as a practical matter, the de facto reality is that the government grants that right.

If the government didn't, someone would infringe.

You could get out your guns and start shooting, possibly kill someone and get convicted and go to jail, or......

You could sue, enlist the government ( via the courts ) to take back your right someone infringed on.

 

What is it you didn't understand about this?:

It says no such thing, I posted the exact wording of the 9th Amendment and you still haven't learned the difference between rights, powers and privileges or that the 10th Amendment has nothing to do with the 9th Amendment. I posted that (see the quote for reading comprehension):

NO. Read my post again for comprehension, the Constitution is very clear on this and it's mandated by the federal government and all government servants (affirmed by Oath of Office) to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, which includes protecting ALL the individual rights of The People.

The rights of a pregnant woman, protected by the Constitution, has nothing to do with any of the above. The Constitution grants no rights. In fact, our founding document declares that the primary purpose of governments is to secure the individual rights of The People. That includes pregnant women. And that once a government fails to conduct its primary function, read my signature, it's a direct quote from the Declaration.

 

I'm not going to go through the process of having to edit my post out your combining mine with someone else's. Edit mine separate and repost.

 

YOUR post #388 is a response to MY post #385 which YOU quoted in full (there is no one else's post that you quoted in #38 where I responded to RodB's post #372. It wasn't even addressed to YOU. YOU are the one who is confused.

But it's ok, don't bother, it's obvious you have no clue what you're posting about because you show you have no understanding about rights, powers, privileges, the Constitution and more specifically the 9th and 10th Amendments.

 

That's post #388 that was transformed into an emoji.

 

Anyone promoting abortion has no idea how valuable a human life is.
This has to be said here and now.