About the inherent unfairness of the Electoral College

Discussion in 'Campaign & Political Reform' started by LafayetteBis, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump will bring that about, Trump is setting us up for another depression, trust me, the working class will vote socialism over corporitism if republican keep favoring the rich over the working class
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  2. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    This goes back to the opening up of the money spigots and Gramm-Leech-Bliley in the 90s.
    Bipartisan **** job
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, when the economy was doing well they rewarded the rich, the problem is, when the economy went down, they could not undo it, same with interest rates now, it's painful in the short term to undo it and no one wants to claim that pain - and now it may be too late
     
  4. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    The bureaucrats and bankers will own the valuable tangible assets and the people will be left holding their worthless paper. And that's comforting
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bollocks. All of it.

    Do come back when you have a cogent argument. This is a DEBATE Forum, not a Message Board ...

    PS: And should you need a Good Idea for your guns in Arizona, I have one.
     
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both. But you can start by telling me why "the majority vote in the EC wins all EC votes".

    Try hard, real hard - because the rule is conceptually absurd in any real democracy.

    There is no better time spent than discussing political alternatives in a country that needs them and especially in one that needs them badly.

    Anybody who thinks that the electoral process (that robbed Hillary of the rightful popular-vote victory) giving Donald Dork the presidency is legitimate should have their head examined ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  7. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Rather, someone who thinks there is a popular-vote to win
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yep, thanks to Bush and Trump
     
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you mean like Trump, the one who called for a revolution when he thought Obama won with less votes?
     
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both. I insult Donald Dork with truthful arguments, that apparently you don't care to read or respond to directly. Your reproach above is thusly childish.

    If you can't put up with him either, but your "better things to do" is a silly excuse. The political leadership of this country directly affects your lifestyle and that of your family. And its future - which (given the economic stats) is coming to close.

    The one aspect of any economy that is a given is this: Sometimes it goes up and sometimes it goes down. But it never does either forever. Moreover, we are fully inside a major economic evolution and people like you don't even see it.

    There is NOTHING more important!

    Age-change has brought upon civilisation massively disruptive changes. We are presently progressing from the Industrial Age to the Information Age and a high-school degree just doesn't cut the mustard anymore. Our kids need a postgraduate degree to make a decent living. And across the country, the average cost in a state-university is $14K a year.

    So, when anyone is at or below the Poverty Threshold then they are about one in eight Americans who still live below the poverty line — with $25,460 income per year! Just how are we to expect that their children will exit the Poverty Threshold by obtaining a postgraduate degree? (They are lucky to graduate from a cost-free local high-school. They SHOULD BE lucky enough to also graduate from a postgraduate school for the lowest possible cost.

    But, more than likely, hey wont - so poverty simply perpetuates itself from generation to generation to generation. Along with the murderous mayhem that goes with it!

    See here: New data clearly illustrate the poverty-to-prison pipeline -
    Wakey, wakey ... !
     
  11. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As the state level? I don't know why, probably some weird quirk of history and politics but I did agree that doesn't make sense and that some kind of proportional distribution of electors makes more sense. For that very reason, I don't think that's an argument against the Electoral College system as a whole.

    I disagree actually. I think times of political extreme are the worst ones for making changes to the system, you'll just end up with an extreme system or the process will stagnate with partisan divisions.

    People might vote differently under a different system so you can't really predict what the results would be. If the system is illegitimate then ever President elected under it was illegitimate (even the ones you liked :cool:).
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  12. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a cowardly dodge to a cogent argument that different states have different ideologies that appeal to them. Sure this is a debate forum and you seem to view the U.S.A. as one solid collective that you would like to put in Mao suits and declare them the same. I disagree. They are fifty states and though they share the same Bill of Rights, they have different ideas as to how they preserve them. Kaliforinia and New York have different ideas as to how much property they can confiscate within that Bill of Rights to pay for the entitlements of others. The Electoral College protects other states from the abuses of that mentality.
    You don't have to tell me what I can do with my guns. I know full well what can be done with them. One thing would be to insure a socialist/totalitarian regime never gets a foothold in the U.S.A. This whole American experiment is to protect the People from an elitist group that thinks it knows best for others.
    Just became apparent to me you're from France. So are the "coneheads". So maybe we should discuss your lame country for a change.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Blah, blah, blah and more blah ...
     
  14. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It doesn't make sense that people vote for a presidential candidate and five times in history the result was that the winner of the popular-vote throughout America WAS NOT CHOSEN TO BE PRESIDENT?

    Right - so let's give a try and see if Americans can get used to voting in a presidential election WITHOUT THE MACHINATION OF STATE ELECTORAL COLLEGES!

    Just the winner of the popular-vote in each state, reported to Congress that then announces the winner?

    What in heaven's name is so difficult about that? Every other developed democracy - with the sole exception of Uncle Sam - elects its Head of state in such a manner.

    Every damn one of them!

    Here are countries that still employ an Electoral College: Other countries with electoral college systems include Burundi, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad and Tobago and Vanuatu.

    What company for Uncle Sam supposedly the Greatest Democracy on earth ... !
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  15. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sigh.

    You can't predict what the outcome of the election would have been if the rules were different. He would have had a completely different campaign strategy if the goal was the most votes. There would have also been an entirely different voter turnout, as some states are so deeply red or blue, that many in the opposing party don't even bother.

    I'm so tired of "she really did win," nonsense.... there's literally no way to know if she would have. California has more republicans than most other states; they just don't show up because there's no point.
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh come off it with the "excuses" - they have no bearing whatsoever. The popular-vote is the popular-vote and there is no avoiding its resonance as the ONLY voting procedure possible.

    Donald Dork LOST the popular-vote and yet became PotUS that is all that matters. You're impervious to the wonderment of other countries of that sad fact given uniquely the manner in which he lost the popular-vote election - which nobody outside the US understands.

    You are just making silly excuses that have no bearing whatsoever on the fact that ONLY the popular-vote matters and no matter how/who or what occurred that voting day.

    And yet, he is PotUS. An evidently sick, sick, sick man has been elected President of the US ...

    PS: And I would be making the same damn argumentation had Hillary lost the popular-vote but won the presidency anyway!!!!
     
  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It makes sense if you recognise that is exactly how the system was designed to work because it was meant to represent the will of the individual states rather than the will of the population as a whole. It's perfectly legitimate to argue for a change in that principle but it isn't legitimate to complain that the system fails to achieve something it was never intended to.

    They'd have to report all of the vote counts rather than just the winner in that state. Your system wouldn't need state government involved at all, it would essentially become a Federal Election.

    I think your biggest barrier would be the need to amend the constitution.

    Not all heads of state are elected at all and those who are aren't all elected by direct popular vote. The role of head of state and/or President in different countries can vary massively anyway so direct comparisons often won't work. I'm also not sure you'll be able to sell "copying what foreigners do" to the American people. :cool:
     
  18. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are simply a confederation of States. The progressives have worked to make the Federal govt supreme yet it is supposed to have limited power. Civics.
     
  19. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My position is not related to colors in any way. States have always voted; people tell the state and the state votes on behalf of its' people. We are the United States. The quickest way to a Civil War is to tell the smaller states that they have literally no voice in the process. They already have a tiny voice as it is.
     
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  20. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
  21. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Bush passed Gramm-Leech-Bliley?
    Would you like to read Mr Bill's speech at its signing?
    Would you care to talk about the amount of cash that flowed to the big banks during QE 1-3?
    Maybe talk about how the banks had mark to market and GAAP accounting principles suspended along with reserve ratios? Ran years of zero percent interest rates? Perhaps how our deposits were reclassified as simple capital structure of the banks, putting us last in line for creditor payout, all under Mr O?

    Bipartisan screw job since the 90's.
     
  22. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This guy does not know we are not a Democracy. Europeans just don't get it.
    I wonder why they think their thoughts matter anyway?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Better than Trump supporters that think we are a dictatorship and Trump is our dictator
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  24. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Oh geeze
     
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  25. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Got it wrong. We are for America first......Don't think you like that.
     

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