Agriculture Is Killing Way More Bees Than We Realized, Huge Study Reveals

Discussion in 'Science' started by wgabrie, Aug 6, 2021.

  1. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Agriculture Is Killing Way More Bees Than We Realized, Huge Study Reveals (sciencealert.com)
    The honey bees have been mysteriously dying out for years now. It looks like the culprit is our own agriculture industry. I wonder what we are going to do now? We need our bees!
     
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I read that bees help pollinate 75% of the world's flowering plants and 35% of the world's food crops. Without effective pollination there is a Domino-effect beyond the loss of production like altering ecosystems and animal survival, etc.

    I work and live in a farming community, and even though farmers advertise sustainable farming practices, something like 95% continue to use pesticides and herbicides...most famously RoundUp. Whether in the air, the ground, or water runoff systems, some portion of this stuff is polluting America.

    Humans collectively refuse to place sustainability over making a buck today! As humans pollute the air, ground, and lakes and oceans, there's no ambiguity that bees and other elements of Earth are going to pay the price...ultimately it is humans who will pay the price...just give it a little more time...
     
  3. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well north america did well before europeans brought those non-native honey bees with them.

    Let the weeds take over your yard. It helps a lot both with honey bees and others. That is the most practical, easy thing to do. I have also put up a lot of boxes for solitary bees. The bumble bees love parts of my property. That is all I can really do for the buzz buzzers.
     
    Collateral Damage and Josh77 like this.
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agricultural practices can create problems but agriculture itself is not responsible. The people who make decisions about using herbicides and pesticides, etc. ARE THE PROBLEM!

    My knowledge of farming tells me it's not much different than any other industry or businesses...unscrupulous decisions are made in all of these areas. Cutting corners, cheating, lying, anything to maintain and/or increase the bottom line, no matter it's negative effects on society, It's mostly about conquering the moment at any costs and risks. It's mostly about short term benefits while ignoring potential long term effects. I don't know if it's a sense of entitlement or desperation or bad management or ignorance that allows many people to ignore laws and societal issues and do whatever they please to achieve the bottom line they desire? To be fair, there are thousands of responsible farmers in the US...
     
    joesnagg, Pants, Josh77 and 1 other person like this.
  5. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,517
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Part of the problem is also a lack of basic science knowledge regarding insect biology and bio chemistry. And we're still a long way from learning all there is to know.

    The impact of neonicotinoids on bees for example is subtle. This class of insecticides passed the usual battery of then standard tests for effectiveness, general environmental impact and safety etc but it took long term exposure and multiple detailed studies of these chemicals and their effects on bees before the effect on foraging behavior became noticeable. Likewise the impact on monoculture farming. Basic analysis would indicate all pollens have similar nutrient contents
    so it shouldn't matter if hives only feed on one type of crop for extended periods. More detailed research?

    I mean lets face it DDT would never have got to market if its long term impacts on the ecosystem had been immediately apparent when first tested - at least for broad scale use anyway. Agricultural science is littered with cases of 'if only I knew then what I know now' .
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  6. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,707
    Likes Received:
    3,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah it always amazed me how many flowering plants I have seen in Home Depot that referenced being "deer resistant" because they contain neonicotinoids. I was always like WTF are you thinking adding neonicotinoids to plants that are most likely to attract beneficial insects.

    Anyway, honey bees are not native to the US to begin with so their fate is more an issue for commercial fruit growers. The less trendy bees--solitary bees and bumble bees-- are the ones that made North America the land of plenty.
     
    joesnagg likes this.
  7. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,104
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Agriculture existed long before pesticides. GMO crops prolly don't help bees either. There's also strong evidence that they are EMF sensitive. I doubt we can convince the world to get rid of wireless technology, but revamping the agriculture industry away from GMO and pesticides would go a long way toward helping out our best pollinators (and prolly make us humans a lot healthier too). We would in theory need to grow more food to compensate for the increase in loss to pests.
     
  8. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,517
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It would depend on what the GMO was intended to achieve. Some things like selecting for disease resistance so you don't have to use agricultural chemicals can be a big plus. The Round Up resistant gene on the other hand IMO is NOT an example of positive GMO. That just lets farmers spray more chemicals on their crops not less.

    But one other positive aspect of GMO is that as a result a lot more is known about plant genetics in general than was the case previously and some of the techniques used in GMO transfer very neatly to selective breeding programs. Using that knowledge its possible to zero in on the best variant of a gene already 'native' to the crop plant you want to modify or a close relative and then select exclusively for that gene when breeding so that in a couple of generations you have it expressed in your lab population. No GMO required.
     
  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    19,980
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree, however, plenty of farmers, and other polluting businesses, today do have knowledge about negative effects yet continue down their same path. I'm aware that we only know what we know at this moment, but what we know at this moment gives us an idea where we can and should do better...
     
    Sallyally likes this.
  10. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    10,256
    Likes Received:
    6,974
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Monoculture is a bad idea. Those huge fields that stretch forever with a single crop are screwing bees over. Fields should be broken up with the types of crops they have, and should be filled with patches of wild growth. Bringing large numbers of the same type of pollinators together attracts the parasites that kill those pollinators. Diversifying the plants will diversify the bee populations, making it more difficult for parasites targeting specific species of pollinators to thrive.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/monoculture-farming-modern-day-agriculture-killing-bees-scientists/story?id=80536659
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I doubt the threats bees are facing are specific to honey bees.

    As for deer, my experience is that deer eat "deer resistant" plants when they want to. Plus, I lose way more plants to antler action than to consumption.
     
    joesnagg likes this.
  12. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Monoculture is a necessary evil to keep prices lower for the consumer. The real problem is acceptable loss of topsoil per acre. There should be no loss of topsoil in farming. There should be a substantial gain in organic matter. One thing to look at is spraying crops near to sundown as possible.
     
    557 and Sallyally like this.
  13. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    10,256
    Likes Received:
    6,974
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    overpopulation is killing this world. When it is so high that we need to adopt methods that are killing the organisms that keep the world functioning, we have a problem.
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As I understand it, the leading causes of loss of topsoil are wind and water.

    When areas of land are plowed, it exposes the topsoil to the wind, and not just during the mechanical cultivation processes. Plus, organic matter becomes exposed to air and sun, both affecting soil composition and becoming a notable source of CO2.

    Farmers (family and corporate) are pretty smart and well educated. They know erosion is a serious issue that affects their business.

    I don't know what the solutions are, but I think this is a recognized issue.
     
    557 likes this.
  15. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    When no-till farming is employed soil quality improves. I love to experiment with plants. Next year I am thinking about gem pop corn.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    OldManOnFire likes this.
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That definitely sounds interesting! I've had a lot of fun with trying a number of varieties of eggplant. I still turn the soil, though - just more in an urban gardening scale.

    I don't know of a case of big agriculture using no-till farming for grain production.
     
  17. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I did this last year. I sprayed an area with glyphosate. Then I played out some of last years goat hay....soiled of course. I laid it down 2ft by 2ft and one ft thick. I then terminated the seeds in peat pots indoors. I planted several " hills" about 5 ft apart. When the weeds started to take over I covered the plants with plastic pots and sprayed around them. I also gave them a shot of miracle grow when I set them out and again after weed killing. Then I let the weeds grow. They cover the melons and prevent sunburn on the melons. Last year's melons were champions! Good size, great sweetness.
     
  18. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have seen rygrass as a cover crop and soybeans planted in the rygrass. They use a machine....a rolling drum...to break the rygrass stems and use the dead grass as a mulch. It works rather well. Roll in the front and plant in the back. Takes out the herbicides. And nothing improves soil better than rotten grass. Leave everything on top of the soil. The worms will turn it in.
     
    557 likes this.
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If my wife found glyphosate on our property I'd be living somewhere else right now - lol!
     
  20. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    With the watermelon, the long vines don't have roots. So where you place your seed must be fertile and clear of weeds. I don't like plastic mulch...so no. But packed down, half rotten , goat hay smothers weeds and feeds plants. It took years to build a good soil here. Plenty of truckloads of horse manure, pine straw, and anything else I can find.
     
  21. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ah ha!!! A Ruth Stout gardener? Ask if she knows who Ruth Stout was.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think so.

    But, a quick scan of wiki includes a lot of commonality with what Ms. Stout did.

    My wife has a degrees in horticulture and agronomy. That included a fair amount of chemistry concerning herbicides and insecticides.

    I planted 16 nut trees in a piece of property that had a lot of clay. The first step was to get out my backhoe and dig successive trenches about 4' deep and then backfill with biomatter mixed in, totally covering the entire area. The area had some slope which looked good for drainage, so I figured it would be successful. The result has been great!
     
  23. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am one person and I like watermelon. I walk out in my garden....after the goats are done.... and I will probably spray. But I don't till or cultivate. I keep everything where it is.
     
  24. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I would never do that. But I ain't you. I am glad you had luck with it. We have some red rock they call clay here.
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'll admit I have a medium sized backhoe on that property, and it is hilarious fun to do gardening with it. I can do stuff I'd never even consider without it!
     

Share This Page