Ahmaud Arbery case: Jury finds McMichaels, Bryan guilty on felony murder charges

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bob Newhart, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Newly Registered

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  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please tell us exactly to which law this is referring to.

    No, this is not true.
    What felony had all three of them committed, before Arbery made the stupid decision to charge at one of them suddenly and unexpectedly around the corner of the truck?

    The felony of illegal arrest would not apply in this situation because there actions up to that point did not actually amount to attempted arrest (whether or not that was their ultimate intent).


    In my opinion the jury was wrong wrong wrong
    (whether or not you believe they deserve some punishment or not)

    Only one of them shot Arbery, yet all three were charged and found guilty of murder.
    Is that commonsense or fair?

    It's not like they left Arbery no choice either. Arbery made a stupid decision that any person with half a brain should have known would probably get him shot or killed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  3. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All three harrassed and corralled the young man. Two were armed. If you rob a bank and have accomplices, they are all guilty of bank robbery. Same applies to murder. Even making a citizens arrest is a very tricky thing and usually done in the commision of a crime. They just suspected Arbery and he had no obligation to answer to them. Perhaps he thought he was about to be roughed up or even executed. These three men went WAYYYYY overboard playing cops.
     
  4. arborville

    arborville Well-Known Member

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    I think laws that result in people who didn't actually pull the trigger being charged with murder should be changed but this is not a new practice. Also, they shouldn't have created the situation that resulted in them killing that young man. You're blaming the victim.

     
  5. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Newly Registered

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    None in particular. There are a variety of laws in many different states for a variety of situations. You need to know all that pertain to your use.
    Unlawful detention.
    This was up to a jury of twelve to decide. They disagreed in this instance. The jury believed felony confinement was occurring.
    And you're welcome to your opinion.

    And as I have said elsewhere, I understand that people would be upset that three men are going to prison for life for killing a career criminal.
    It is the way the law is written. you are welcome to petition your local state legislatures to change the law if you live in this area.

    Generally, in many states, if you participate in a crime and someone dies, you are charged with felony murder.

    https://www.themarshallproject.org/...ith-murder-even-if-they-haven-t-killed-anyone

    The above link is very liberal (not leftist) but it describes the various laws fairly well.

    Once the jury decided that Arbery was unlawfully confined, the case was over. I mentioned that before on Friday when the Judge wrote the charge the way he did. This opens up the only route to appeal - I don't want to get your hopes up, I don't think the appeal would have a chance.
    They admitted to cornering Arbery, brandishing their weapons, and pointing their weapons at him. While I agree that taking fists to a gun fight is a bad idea, I definitely wouldn't allow a criminal to kidnap me and take me to crime scene 2. I have a much better chance of survival and the criminals caught if I make my last stand immediately.

    And that is the problem, the law as presented to the jury allowed the evidence to easily show that the Michaels and Bryan were the criminals whom Arbery was defending himself from.

    If the Michaels and Bryan never tried to corner Arbery like a rat. (Their words - not mine.) If they has not decided to brandish weapons and pointed them at Arbery. If they had decided only to follow him like Zimmerman without confornting him - everything would have been roses.

    Also, if Bryan hadn't stupidly decided to release the video to the media like a moron, well I'm tired of discussing what ifs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That may be true, but I think the victim deserves partial blame for his own death.

    What they did may not have been entirely right, but the victim's response also was not very good and was very stupid.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I understand the argument, but I just don't think this situation was comparable to a bank robbery.

    They suspected him of being the neighborhood burglar. Rather than talk to them, rather than just refusing to talk and walking away, rather than continuing to just jog, he ran away.

    Do you think they had a right to try to keep an eye on his location so that police could stop him? Maybe not arrest him but talk to him, ask for his identification, at least capture a picture of his face on the body camera.

    I think they had a right to give chase. Maybe not cut off his path in the middle of the road.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  8. Yulee

    Yulee Well-Known Member

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    3 crazy ass rednecks? Why should he have had to stop? What authority did they have to make him stop?
     
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  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not claiming they had the authority to stop him. But they had a right to be very suspicious.

    Police probably would have had a right to stop him.

    How could police be able to stop him if they did not follow him?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Were they "brandishing" their weapons, or just holding them?

    Did they point their weapons at him before he began suddenly charging at one of them, trying to grab the gun?

    If the answer is yes, then I will concede my opinion will be very different on this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  11. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why give chase to an unwilling person? What are you gonna do? Well.....they were armed. Guess that tells the story. They cornered the guy. What would you do if three black guys, one with a shotgun had you cornered in an alley that was not your home turf? I'd try to get the shotgun!
     
  12. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm suspicious of a whole lot of things! If I decided to behave that way I'd have probably gone to D.C. on Jan. 6th!!

    I was interested in how does one do a "citizens Arrest" in my state of Arizona. A person must really walk a thin line. If he steps over that line he'll probably end up in jail himself. You actually better catch the person you're arresting in the commission of a crime, and you better handle it right! f you have everything right, he cannot resist, legally but if he does, how you react is gonna be risky. I'd just let the cops do the arresting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  13. arborville

    arborville Well-Known Member

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    Suspicious based on what ...?

     
  14. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Newly Registered

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    Being that they were long rifles, it doesn't meet the legal definition of brandishing in Georgia. They were carrying openly. The only reason for mentioning this is that it raises the threat level toward Arbery. Basically, it's the difference between going to a convenience store and demanding the money from the register and demanding the money while carrying a shotgun.

    But I primarily mentioned this because it sunk the defense for Bryan. He could not claim that he didn't know the Michaels were armed.
    "The man who shot dead Ahmaud Arbery testified Thursday that the 25-year-old black man never pulled out a weapon or threatened him in any way before he pointed his shotgun at him during a chase through his Georgia neighborhood."
    https://nypost.com/2021/11/18/travis-mcmichael-admits-ahmaud-arbery-never-had-a-weapon/
    Yep, truthful to a fault.
    The biggest problem was that they were claiming to have been making a citizen's arrest. The problem with this is that none of them had witnessed a felony crime and the closest crime they might have been able to pin to him was over ten days old. All of them admitted that they didn't know what crime he had committed when they decided to corner him like a rat. Even if the law allowed for it, this is rife for abuse.

    Anytime anyone is suspicious of your behavior, he can point a shotgun at you and demand you answer questions?

    No, even a policeman should get in trouble for that.

    If they had only followed him, everything would have been fine.
     
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  15. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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  16. mtlhdtodd

    mtlhdtodd Well-Known Member

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  17. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Justice won. The violent criminal thugs lost.
     
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  18. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    A man is dead and 3 men's lives are over... simple lesson here, IF YOU WANNA PLAY COP APPLY TO THE LOCAL POLICE FORCE, THEY'RE PAID TO DO SO, YOU'RE NOT!!!
     
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  19. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  20. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    They yelled death threads at Arbery when they chased him around for 5 minutes, openly having their guns out.

    They could not do a citizens arrest on him. They failed on the criteria needed. So that means that they were falsely imprisoning him with death threads, with their guns out. They dileberately stood in their way. And they just executed him when Arbery wanted to push his way out of that imprisonment.

    They were all in on it. So yeah. Totally fair.

    They left him no choice since they were falsely imprisoning him while yelling death threads, with their guns out.
    The red necks had a choice to just let the cops deal with it.
     
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  21. omni

    omni Newly Registered

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    You can follow someone and wait for police to arrive. They however took it a step further and tried to block him in. They admitted to this.
     
  22. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Actually. Arbery lived just 2 miles away and he was a frequent runner. So people are just wrong about that whole thing of "this black guy had no business in that neighborhood". It's all part of an underlying racist theme that a black person is suspicious by default and shouldn't have that right that his black skin color is around some houses who just happen to be owned by white people. (That Zimmerman guy basically did the same thing.)


    Do note. That case was riddled with rather racist undertones. The defense team had a problem with a black pastor being present in the audience. His skin color actually got mentioned. Racist slurs by the defendants expressed when they killed Arbery weren't allowed to be said during the court. Racist slurs the defends expressed in the past were also not allowed to be mentioned in court. And the entire thing revolves around that them 3 white dudes singled out Arbery when they thought they recognized him entering a construction site on a tape they saw some days ago..... but with that, they singled out Arbery. Plenty of other people did the same thing. It's obvious why he got singled out. Their idea's about race they previously expressed just says it all about the why.
     
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  23. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    It's a bit more then that. They told him they would kill him if he wouldn't submit to their will, with their guns out.
     
  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "They"? Or just one of them?

    How exactly should collective responsibility apply in this case?

    Once the threat was made by one of them, should the other two have immediately backed off because they didn't have the right to chase anymore?

    Let's use some logic in this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But that may be a semantic argument because it depends at which point the citizen's arrest actually "began".
    In a way, it had not actually started yet.
    Even if they were planning to do something they did not have the legal right to do, they had not broken that law yet.

    In my opinion, I find it very problematic that they could be held responsible for death during the commission of a felony when that felony had not actually begun yet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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