Alcohol and Sickness

Discussion in 'Drugs, Alcohol & Tobacco' started by ibshambat, Apr 23, 2016.

  1. ibshambat

    ibshambat Well-Known Member

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    With drinking, there are four directions in which it is possible to go. It is possible to have a problem and think that one has a problem. It is possible to have a problem and think that one does not have a problem. It is possible to have no problem and think that one has a problem. And it is possible to have no problem and think that one does not have a problem.

    If you have no problem and think that you do not have a problem: You're fine. If you have a problem and think that you don't have a problem: You're in denial. If you have no problem and think that you have a problem: You're hypochondriac. And if you have a problem and think that you have a problem: you need help.

    It is possible to test whether or not you have a problem. Commit yourself to drinking one glass a day for a week. If you can pull it off without negative consequences, you are fine. If you cannot pull it off, seek help.

    There is nothing wrong or shameful with seeking help. In Alexander Pope's words, do not be ashamed to admit your mistakes; all it means is that you are a wiser person today than you were yesterday. The problem is that not all of the solutions out there are for everyone. Alcoholics Anonymous wants people to quit drinking completely. This is overkill. Most people can have a glass of wine for dinner or some beer while watching a football game without experiencing negative consequences. Alcoholics Anonymous is for those people who cannot manage alcohol. Admitting this is not shameful, and doing so does not make one a loser. It simply means that one has a problem and wants to fix it, which involves much more courage and honesty than letting problems fester.

    Is alcoholism, as AA people say, a disease? There are clearly people with genetic predisposition for alcoholism, such as American Natives and Australian Aborigines; but then there are many others who simply do not know how to handle their liquor. Somewhere along the way they lost control and became unable to manage their drinking consumption. I see no problem with seeing that as an illness and treating it through group therapy. However the message that all alcohol consumption is symptomatic of an illness is a wrong one.

    The less becomes the stigma of alcoholism, the more people who need help will seek it. If that means that they need to see themselves as sick and go around helping each other, I see no problem with that. However not all people who drink cannot manage their alcohol consumption, and it is important to determine who is who and who needs what measures to either quit entirely or to exercise self-control in how much one drinks.
     
  2. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'll drink to that.
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    So, alcoholism has nothing to do with social disadvantage and lack of opportunity?

    Have you BEEN to Doomadgee or any of the indigenous communities? Have you seen first hand how little there is in the way of employment and opportunity? Have you seen the continuing racism that is faced on a daily basis by our indigenous people?

    Please do not bring race into this.

    I would rather work with our indigenous alcoholics than face the brain fried "I am a perfect party princess" high on a cocktail of whatever she felt like taking

    Not to mention the strung out teen trying to bite your fingers off as you try to hold them down so they can get medical treatment and stop bleeding all over the floor

    Do you get the ads on FASD?? Are you aware they were funded by an indigenous community because the elder women had noticed the children could not remember enough to retain the verbal heritage. It is to our sorrow that we have not acted as a society before this

    NO blame - solutions only please
     
  4. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Alcohol and cancer: Strong evidence of a direct, harmful effect of drinking...
    :omg:
    Alcohol is a direct cause of seven types of cancer, study finds
    22/07/2016 - Alcohol causes seven types of cancer and probably others, a review has concluded.
     
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  5. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Lower rates of alcoholism in East Asian countries can be explained by the genetic safety mechanism. The ADH1B*47His allele is extremely common in East Asia (up to 90%) and it causes flushes on the face after consuming alcoholic beverages, which may serve as a warning sign to prevent people of East Asian decent from consuming too much alcohol that the body cannot handle (Peng et al. 2009). Russians are prone to be alcoholic with their annual per capita consumption of 15.76 litres mainly because they lack the ADH1B*47His gene which urges the body to consume alcohol in moderation.

     
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  6. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says, "Dat's right - it'll make ya goofy, like Uncle Ferd...
    [​IMG]
    Even Moderate Drinking Linked to Changes in Brain Structure, Study Finds
    June 06, 2017 — Drinking even moderate amounts of alcohol is linked to changes in brain structure and an increased risk of worsening brain function, scientists said Tuesday.
     
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  7. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says if ya go to Mexico don't drink the tequila
    [​IMG]
    U.S. warns Americans of possible 'tainted' alcohol in Mexico
    July 27, 2017 -- The U.S. Department of State has warned people traveling to Mexico about possibly tainted or substandard alcohol, and to drink responsibly after the death of a Wisconsin woman.
     
  8. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anyone who has ever drank water has eventually died.
     
  9. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    A lot of alcoholics die much sooner.
     
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  10. Bear513

    Bear513 Banned

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    It depends on what you drink..beer no, Vodka yes.


    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  11. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can die from drinking too much water too. " Water intoxication, also known as water poisoning or hyperhydration, is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside safe limits by overhydration (excessive water intake)."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

    But you are correct, it takes way less alcohol.
     
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  12. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    I once knew a man that claimed beer yes, hard liquor no. He died soon after. I am not against drinking in moderation.... I don't drink. But to even imply it is harmless is just wrong. I used to drink a lot and I know personally the damage it can cause physically, and emotionally.
     
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  13. Bear513

    Bear513 Banned

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    I love my bud lights (52 years old) but I know for a fact stay away from the Vodka that stuff will kill you and fast, 5 of my friends died off from it between the ages of 28~45 years old

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
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  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not a disease, and no one is 'predisposed' in the genetic sense. Some races process alcohol differently, but it doesn't predispose them to any particular behaviour.

    Abuse is learned behaviour. EG, it's now well understood that alcohol use/abuse is considerably more likely when someone is raised in a family wherein ordinary (non abusive) drinking takes place. Children learn that all good times/social activities are necessarily accompanied by alcohol, etc. It's a very bad message to send. If kids see their parents enjoying themselves and their friends without alcohol, they learn it's not required (and more importantly, not desired).
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    The solution is to get the parents to stop drinking, so the kids don't see it as an acceptable option.
     
  16. Bear513

    Bear513 Banned

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    Alcoholism is classified as a disease by the AMA ...now we can have opinions and discussion's about it, but legally it is... just like how the government classifies "electricity" as a fuel , which I highly debate that one.


    .
     
  17. Bear513

    Bear513 Banned

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    No you have to make it non taboo, take Italy for example not many alcoholics there. Once you make something taboo kids want it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
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  18. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My family included folks from Yugoslavia. They fed us kids wine with water in it at dinner. Everyone drank....no one died of alcoholism. All my relatives lived to ripe old ages so, I would say it is not shielding children from alcohol it is teaching them about it. My grandfather and father always taught me that we are to take everything in moderation and showed me by their actions. They never got drunk.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
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  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    The AMA (or whichever body equates in our various countries) will pathologise anything that they know GPs (general practitioners) are struggling to address, both actually and legally. Obesity, addiction, etc. Modern social mores demand that no one calls a spade a spade, so pathology is necessary for legal and operational safety. At the same time, they are de-pathologising conditions that modern social mores demand we embrace.

    Basically, this means that the AMAs of the world are being bullied into rewriting medicine, to fit an emotions-driven agenda (aka, modern social mores). If it's hip and appealing, it must be de-pathologised, if it's unattractive and hard work, pathologise it. Science barely rates a mention.

    Soon, doctors and shrinks will be nothing more than script-writing shamans ... beating around bushes, referring, and pretending.
     
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  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Seriously? You realise this theory was debunked last century, right? It's well understood that drinking culture produces drinkers.

    Meantime, your mistake is in thinking people actually go out of their way to declare something 'taboo'. Maybe you've had limited exposure to different cultures, or have only seen religious or other weird negative approaches to drinking. It isn't about declaring it taboo, it's about MODELLING a full and complete life without resort to alcohol. Nothing needs to be spelled out. The minute you spell it out, you make it a thing.
     
  21. Bear513

    Bear513 Banned

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    That's what I always read, here in the USA kids can't wait to turn 16 to drive a car, couldn't wait to turn 18 ( in my case because I lived in Illinois and Wisconsin was still 18 at the time) so you wait and wait and and then go overboard when you can finnaly drink a beer, wine or hard liquor.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
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  22. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Alcoholism is defined as imbibing to the point where it disrupts one's life and one cannot stop. Drinking in moderation may be marginally unhealthy but so is eating a steak...or so we are told.
     
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  23. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never went overboard. OK maybe once..but I didn't turn out to be an alcoholic. My parents' teachings about moderation was stronger and I already knew the effects of alcohol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    There is no 'shielding' involved in the non-drinker's life or parenting. Alcohol is simply not there. That's like suggesting you shield your kids from heroin .. silly. You don't need to shield them from a non-existent thing (unless parents are junkies, of course).

    And again, it's very well understood that exposing children to alcohol is a primary indicator for later use/abuse of alcohol. Doesn't matter how much or how little - if it's deemed 'normal', by authority figures (parents) via their actions, kids enter teens/adulthood with the idea that it's inevitable.
     
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  25. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Define 'drinkers.'
     
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