Allegations of white phosphorous use by NATO

Discussion in 'Nuclear, Chemical & Bio Weapons' started by Peter Szarycz, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. Peter Szarycz

    Peter Szarycz New Member

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    Libya : NATO war crimes charges
    19.10.2011
    Is NATO using forbidden weaponry in Libya? Below is video footage of what is purported to be attacks using white phosphorous (as it did in Kosovo, as it did in Iraq). The graphic images of the effects upon human beings this horrific substance has are too horrendous for us to place here, but a search will reveal the demonic mindset involved in deploying this substance. But then again with NATO, is anyone really surprised?

    The Algerian site Algeria-isp.com has announced that 1,200 civilians have been murdered by NATO in Bani Walid, where prohibited weaponry has been used. One of these weapons is the so-called poor man's atom bomb, namely the FAE bomb, or Fuel Air Explosive, which is a horrific demonic weapon designed to burn all the oxygen in a determined area, suffocating all living beings within its radius of operation. The source says this weapon has been used in Bani Walid, Tarhouna, Khomse, Misrata and Sirte, among other theatres.

    This proves quite how desperate NATO is getting as the Libyan Armed Forces, tribal militia and people's committees fight back heroically against the foreign invader and the terrorist scourge it supports - one has only to research the atrocities of these demonic thugs to understand why the Libyan people are fighting so fiercely.

    There is also footage of a white phosphorous attack by NATO on the civilians of Bani Walid, while "journalists accompanying Arabic and western news sources have remained quiet about this massacre".

    0
    SharePrint version Font Size Send to friend"Any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat, or combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target" is forbidden under Article 2 of Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional weapons.

    Article 2 on "Protection of civilians and civilian objects" states:

    It is prohibited in all circumstances to make the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons.

    It is prohibited in all circumstances to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by air-delivered incendiary weapons.

    It is further prohibited to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by means of incendiary weapons other than air-delivered incendiary weapons, except when such military objective is clearly separated from the concentration of civilians and all feasible precautions are taken with a view to limiting the incendiary effects to the military objective and to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.



    Original source and video:

    http://www.algeria-isp.com/actualit...-des-bombes-phosphore-blanc-octobre-2011.html



    Once again, we see the demonic nature of NATO, which perpetrates war crimes almost daily as it supports terrorists, murderers, rapists, arsonists, looters and torturers in Libya to oust the progressive government so that the FUKUS countries (France, UK and US) can get their hands on Libya's resources and set up a base in Africa to recolonise the Continent after Colonel Gaddafi helped to free it.



    Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey

    Pravda.Ru


    http://english.pravda.ru/world/africa/19-10-2011/119379-nato_war-0/
     
  2. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    Fortunately I saw Timothy was the author and was therefore saved the annoyance of reading more of his mega crap .
    Pravda really are the Pits by any standards and at any level .
     
  3. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    NATO troop scale-back to save a half a billion dollars...
    :salute:
    US Scaling Back Troops in Europe to Save $500M
    January 8, 2015: WASHINGTON (AP) — The Pentagon Thursday unveiled sweeping plans to consolidate its forces in Europe, taking thousands of U.S. military and civilian personnel out of bases mostly in the United Kingdom and Portugal, in an effort that will save about $500 million each year.
     
  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But but but if we dropped Valerie Jarrett and Susan Rice on Iraq and Syria, who would make the important national security decisions in the White House ? Who would take overseeing the liberal social engineering experimentation of our military ?

    But I digress:

    Willie Peter saves American soldiers lives on the battlefield when you know how to properly use it.
     
  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, currently we no longer use it against personnel. It's primary use is in creating a thick smoke cloud to screen off a unit trying to withdraw from the attacking enemy. And if some fools are stupid enough to run into a thick white cloud of WP to pursue retreating allied forces, then I say let them burn. The battlefield is the ultimate Darwinian test.
     
  6. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I concur.

    WP was used to mark targets for CAS missions, to create smoke screens and burn VC villages. But there was one incident when a NVA company was dug in, trenches, fighting holes, etc. and to get them to abandon their position and expose themselves, a WP round was detonated just over their position. Like cockroaches when you turn on the light, Charley was jumping out of their trenches exposing themselves to the Marine grunts who took care of Charley with their M-16's and M-60's.
     
  7. Riot

    Riot New Member

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    As long as the ratio of white phosphorous is close to the portion of black phosphorous are close and fair.
     
  8. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    White phosphorous is an incendiary, a particularly odious one, because even if extinguished it immediately combusts again on exposure to air. While usually considered an incendiary, it has elements of a chemical weapon too, since if a burning clump of phosphorous gets on your skin it can burn its way through, getting into the flesh and causing terrible chemical burns and, depending on the exposed burn area, poisoning that will result in death.

    A little bit of interesting chemistry trivia: Ingesting even a tiny speck of white phosphorous can cause death, whereas the red allotrope of phosphorous, if properly prepared and sufficiently pure, has no ill-effects. The red form is simply made by heating the white form under pressure.
     
  9. Riot

    Riot New Member

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    And yet Obama is arming and training Al Qaeda over the guess that Assad used chlorine which is not nearly are lethal. Which the UN said in their opinion it was the Syrian rebels that used this bomb.
    So is Obama going to stand by his line drawn and train Isis or Al Qaeda to attack the UN?
     
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    This is why the US no longer uses it against personnel. This however is a choice, it actually is legal to use against military personnel just not to use against civilians. It's main use to the US is the incredibly dense white smoke that it produces that hands a lot longer then more traditional military smoke ordinance.

    The US will also sometimes use it against munitions and other logistical depots. Not much gets rid of a bunch of ordinance or war materiel then WP. And we maintain stockpiles in a lot of our equipment in war zones in the form of grenades. In the event our positions are overrun WP or Thermite is purposefully detonated inside of our equipment or sensitive material to deny it to the enemy.
     
  11. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    It's the chemical nature, it only takes a tiny amount of the substance to produce a large amount of smoke. The phosphorous combines first with oxygen, then with moisture in the air to produce the smoke. The smoke consists of tiny droplets of dilute phosphoric acid, mostly rather harmless, though it can cause coughing and chocking.

    4 P + 5 O2 + 6 H2O --> 4 H3PO4
     
  12. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But WP burns at 5,000 degrees.

    M15 White Phosphorous grenade

    >" The M15 White Phosphorous grenade is a bursting type grenade used for signaling, screening, and incendiary purposes.

    (1) Body -- sheet metal.

    (2) Filler -- 15 ounces of white phosphorus.

    (3) Fuze -- M206A2.

    (4) Weight -- 31 ounces.

    (5) Capabilities -- the average soldier can throw the grenade 30 meters. The grenade has a bursting radius of 17 meters. All friendly personnel within this 17-meter area should be in a covered position to avoid being struck by burning particles. The WP filler burns for about 60 seconds at a temperature of 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit. This intense heat causes the smoke produced by the grenade to rise quite rapidly, especially in cool climates. This makes the M15 grenade less desirable for use as a screening agent.

    (6) Color/markings -- grey with one yellow band and yellow markings.

    (7) First aid -- treat burns caused by WP in the same way as ordinary burns. If particles of WP are embedded in the flesh, immerse the wound in water or pack with wet cloths to halt combustion. Then pick out or squeeze out the WP. The particles will reignite spontaneously if allowed to dry. Apply copper sulphate solution to halt combustion of the WP particles. This permits them to be removed without igniting."<

    Better source:

    White Phosphorus (WP)

    >"White Phosphorus (WP), known as Willy Pete, is used for signaling, screening, and incendiary purposes. White Phosphorus can be used to destroy the enemy's equipment or to limit his vision. It is used against vehicles, petroleum, oils and lubricants (POL) and ammunition storage areas, and enemy observers. WP can be used as an aid in target location and navigation. It is usually dispersed by explosive munitions. It can be fired with fuze time to obtain an airburst. White phosphorus was used most often during World War II in military formulations for smoke screens, marker shells, incendiaries, hand grenades, smoke markers, colored flares, and tracer bullets..."<

    continue -> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/wp.htm
     
  13. ESTT

    ESTT Well-Known Member

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    Why are weapons forbidden in warfare? Isn't the goal to defeat the enemy?
     
  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Woolly Pete is delicious on cornflakes.

    I like pronouncing it Australian style.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  15. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Liberals.
     
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  16. ESTT

    ESTT Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed. While I am by no means what the average person would call a "true conservative", I find the idea of delegating what a nation or faction can and cannot do when death is the goal to be rather strange.
     
  17. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with white phosphorous?
     
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  18. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In discussions of limited types of weapons, it traces back to the prohibition against chemical weapons. The premise is that weapons should KILL, not just disfigure and/or permanently cripple. Chemical weapons in WW! permanently blinded many troops and left others terribly disfigured and with permanent injuries to their lungs.

    There also are prohibitions against weapons that hinder treating the wounded. For this reason, such as glass embedded bullets can not be used as glass is not easily detected in surgery or X-ray. Poison bullets cannot be used.

    Still another consideration is civilians. Ideally, they are not killed, crippled or disfigured.

    Of course, the most core concept is to agree that we won't do it to your troops - and you won't do it to ours. In warfare, ideally when it is over all the living can go back to their regular lives. Weapons that mostly just disfigure and cripple on a mass scale contradict this.

    Why can't prisoners be tortured and then all killed? They are a drain on resources.

    Remember how we are trying to justify attacking Syria for using a chemical weapon that killed a few dozen civilians? Our bombing runs have killed far more. But the former is a no-no and bombing is not.

    White phosphorous can be used, but not as a weapon because this was agreed to due to it generally is not lethal but causes horrific burn damage and horrific pain.
     
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  19. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except we do exactly that. We can bomb a city, but rant at a terrorist attack. Can use napalm, but get hysterical if a chemical weapon kills a few dozen people. Does it make sense when we rant about it? Or just the other side does?
     
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  20. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The issue more is around weapons that don't cause death, but rather permanent disfigurement and/or crippling. It also has to do with what we don't want to happen to our troops. Remember the fury of the Jordanian pilot burned to death in a cage? But how many do we kill with napalm? It depends upon which side of the fence you are on, doesn't it?
     
  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I suppose many of you didn't know that while it is not policy and in fact vehemently denied by most western nations, in fast moving conventional conflicts potential prisoners of war are routinely killed rather than be taken.

    In the retreat from the Chosin in the Korean War, U.S. troops killed a pretty large number of Chinese rather than take them prisoner because there was no practical way to do so.
     
  22. ESTT

    ESTT Well-Known Member

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    Of course it depends. They are the enemy to us as we are to them. I am not saying we are supposed to assume that there won't be casualties. It is only that I believe in achieving victory by any means necessary.
    I was, strangely enough, bothered by what happened to the Jordanian pilot however. Though that was likely due to the fact that he was killed as part of ISIS's propaganda. I suppose one could say I care more about the intent, not the act of violence committed. For example, if the victims at Charlie Hebdo were instead replaced by a significant portion of Encyclopedia Dramatica's editors, (I am not comfortable disclosing the mocked demographic in question) I would have felt very different emotions.

    Also, regarding weapons that cause disfigurement as well as not wanting your own troops to share the fate of your enemies, I can see some logic to that concept.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  23. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    you think white phosphorous is bad... Try red phosphorous..


    https://www.designer-drug.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/hydriodic.argox.html


    The clandestine meth chemist without a black market source for HI(aq), or the enterprising chemist who wishes to supply the former, have three choices for making HI(aq):

    Combine iodine and red phosphorus, carefully add water. This method is widely used by those chemists who supply meth labs with HI(aq). However, it has the disadvantage of using watched chemicals. Red phosphorus (RP) is controlled. Iodine (I2) is watched. Obtaining OTC RP and I2 is not a serious endevour. OTC RP from match box strikers and OTC iodine from tincture is time consuming and labor intensive. Only tweakers will attempt to make their own RP and I2. Besides, this write-up is all about making HI(aq) from innocuous non-watched ingredients at any scale.

    Bubble hydrogen sulfide gas through an aqueous slurry of I2, distill HI(aq).


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjjz6TBh8nUAhVHxWMKHcyaBPUQFgg6MAQ&url=http://preparatorychemistry.com/Bishop_acid_nomenclature_help.htm&usg=AFQjCNFTrD3qiyKlJAE7fppJXK3Cn9dt1A&sig2=Dp7rcYBPDbVyVw35ewMdGw
    The only exception to remember is that the “o” in hydro is left off for HI(aq), so its name is hydriodic acid (an acid used to make pharmaceuticals). Most chemists refer to pure HCl gas as hydrogen chloride, but when HCl gas is dissolved in water,HCl(aq), the solution is called hydrochloric acid.


    Hydrochloric acid is a corrosive, strong mineral acid with many industrial uses. A colorless, highly pungent solution of hydrogen chloride (HCl) in water, when it reacts with an organic base it forms a hydrochloride salt.

    With major production starting in the Industrial Revolution, hydrochloric acid is used in the chemical industry as a chemical reagent in the large-scale production of vinyl chloride for PVC plastic, and MDI/TDI for polyurethane. It has numerous smaller-scale applications, including household cleaning, production of gelatin and other food additives, descaling, and leather processing. About 20 milliontonnes of hydrochloric acid are produced worldwide annually.[citation needed] It is also found naturally in gastric acid.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  24. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, we signed on to the CCW Treaty back in 2009, so we can not use Napalm. And we have not used napalm since Vietnam.

    However, to be honest the signature of the CCW is not legally binding. It is yet another example of where he signed a treaty, then never submitted it to Congress for ratification.

    It is actually amazing how many of the treaties from the past 8 years are not legally binding.
     
  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    IIRC the U.S. used napalm in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Though we don't call them "napalm" anymore. Instead they are termed "firebombs".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_77_bomb

    Okay, technically not napalm but given the effects, mainly a distinction without a difference.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017

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