America has No Allies in a War with Iran!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Derideo_Te, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    No comment. That's a conspiracy theory.

    Why does it have to be from a known terror group to be considered Islamic terrorism?
    Just being a muslim and shooting or terrorizing based on the religious belief qualifies for me.
     
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  2. JCS

    JCS Newly Registered

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    You should look into it. Though positive proof of a false flag event designed to push the U.S. into an endless war in the ME, 911 was a very sloppy covert op with red flags jutting out like a porcupine. But its planners didn't care. They knew the shock of the event for most folks would be enough to shut down any notion that the act could ever be an inside job.

    The idea is there's a difference between the impassioned anger/vengeful emotions of an individual acting alone VS a well planned & calculated act by a well organized Islamic group. The former is act of passion & irrationality. The latter is an act designed to send a specific (political) message.
     
  3. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Terrorism, none the less.
     
  4. JCS

    JCS Newly Registered

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    The latter is easily preventable.
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ancient history does not have that much relevance - other than the world of Islam used to be "enlightened" relative to the west. The West got its act together - the ME went backwards.

    No doubt the hornet is responsible for building its own nest - What is moronic is hitting that nest with a bat and expecting not to get stung.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have you no knowledge of recent history ? Obama - led a global effort to arm a radical Islamist proxy army in Syria - leading to the death of 500,000 - turned Libya into a jihadist wonderland - and we are now being investigated for war crimes in Yemen and on the same side as Al Qaeda there too.
     
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  7. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    And had they not been willing to fight anyone including each other at the drop of a hat it wouldn't have mattered.
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Absurd nonsense you are blubbering. If some nation invades the US - should we "not be willing to fight" so as to cause less casualties ?

    Do you not think about what you are saying - prior to saying it. What were the people of Syria supposed to do - just give up and let Syria be turned into a Strict Sharia Theocracy ?
     
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    America has No Allies in a War with Iran!

    America has no war with Iran.
     
  10. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. If one isn't an arse like the US sometimes is to other countries. It is preventable.
    Notice Japan has little terrorism.
     
  11. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    None of our allies really have their own military so who cares. The only one that does is isreal. They're the ones who are most affected by this and further they're the ones who really know what this enemy is. A bunch of brain dead people in the EU don't matter.
     
  12. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    We could beat Iran with both arms and both legs tied behind our back.
     
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  13. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    The poster is saying that IF America was in a war with Iran, THEN America would have no allies. He, or anyone else, is NOT saying, that America is in a war with Iran. We may not technically be in a war with Iran yet, but we are doing everything we can to provoke a war. Also, having allies that are willing to sacrifice their soldier's lives for your cause, is usually a good indicator that your policies just might have a solid moral and rational foundation. But, if NO allied country supports your insane rationale, then it is time to re-think the merits of your actions. If only 2 countries(out of 117) think that you are doing the right thing, then the odds are pretty good that you are doing the wrong thing.

    Really? So, Germany(10th most powerful), UK(8th most powerful), Japan(6th most powerful), France(5th most powerful), Australia(19th most powerful), or S. Korea(7th most powerful), do NOT have their own standing army? https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp . Iran is ranked as the 14th most powerful army in the world(2019). Characterizing people in the EU as brain-dead, or that their opinions don't matter, is the ultimate in arrogance and short-sightedness. We are suppose to be the moral and political leader of the free world. Are selfishness, arrogance, isolationism, apathy, bullying, deceit, and American exceptionalism, examples of qualities to be expected in good leadership?

    Other than Iraq(still debatable), and since WWII, what other country has the US defeated in war? We have been kicked out of Somalia, N. Korea, Lebanon, and Libya. We have failed in Afghanistan, for the last 19 years. We have failed in Syria, Venezuela, Bolivia, Guatemala, El Salvador, S. Viet Nam, Brazil, and Nicaragua. Iraq was a war, “conceived in deceit and born in hubris. It took our eye off Al Qaeda and the Taliban...". Now even Iraq is asking American troops to leave their country. Especially after murdering 9 of its prominent officials. Why can’t the most lethal military establishment in history, clearly win its wars? The United States military does not do well with counterinsurgency, and should stay clear of them. Firepower, mass maneuvers, and advanced technologies of the American military, are not effective weapons against lightly armed insurgents. Hence, we will continue to lose every armed conflict we engage in the ME. It seems that the lives of our men and women in uniform, are less important than corporate America's bottom-line. It seems that their lives are also less important, than the needs of those gore-merchant chicken hawks, that can only see the death of millions of civilians(since 911), as just entertainment. In fact, name one country(since WWII), that has benefitted from American Interventionism, or regime change?

    The only thing the US military can do, with or without its hands and feet tied, under this madman, IS TO DESTROY THE ENTIRE PLANET FOR GREED. Fortunately, rational minds do not embrace the idea of Mutually Assured Destruction. Remember, Russia and China(2nd and 3rd most powerful armies), both support Iran. Or, do you think, we can eat Russia, China, and the entire Arab nation for breakfast, with our feet and hands also tied behind our back?
     
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  14. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    What is the insane rationale to which you refer?
     
  15. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    The rationale that the murder/assassination of Soleimani was justified, because Soleimani posed an imminent and immediate threat to the lives of our troops. Without providing any evidence at all. Even though he was going to a peace meeting, when he was killed. The rationale that killing of Saddam Hussein was because he had, and would use WMD's. The rationale of selling our weapons to Saudi Arabia, to commit genocide in Yemen, and then claim that we do not support terrorists. The rationale that Assad was gassing his people, to justify illegal missile strikes on a sovereign country. The rationale that Iran was violating its nuclear treaty/agreement, when everyone else was saying that Iran was abiding by the treaty. Including all independent inspectors. Yet we still imposed crippling sanctions, and abandoned the treaty. The rationale of committing acts of war(blockades, sanctions, demonizing rhetoric, etc.), while still claiming not to be seeking war. The rationale of conducting covert operations to overthrow governments, or destabilize economies, of any country that either nationalize their resources, or refuse to trade or purchase oil in American dollars. And, the rationale of telling lies enough times, until people begin to accept it as the truth(illusory truth effect, validity effect, or the reiteration effect). I am under no illusion, that the more reckless this madman is, the more excuses and insane rationales, his supporters will makeup.

    We are responsible for our actions. Just as the Germans were responsible for their actions. Once we become above the law, and think that we can do whatever we want, we become power without responsibility. We begin to lack true empathy, like psychopaths. Like psychopaths, we also don't care what anyone else thinks about our decisions.

    Why are we still in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria? Why? Why are we wasting trillions of dollars in the ME? Why don't we use the money to save the over 2,000 people starving to death(from malnutrition), each year in the US? Or, to address so many of our urgent social needs instead?
     
  16. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    We haven’t fought a war at 100% since 1945. Since then, we haven’t tried.
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    That is all you needed to write. The rest was bloviation. Soleimani was a general in an enemy army and a terrorist. My recommendation to you would be to refrain from terrorism against the U.S. Bin Laden wasn't even a general in an enemy army. He was a free lance terrorist. You see what can happen to terrorists. We should do this more often.
     
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    We paid for it through NATO so it's really our military. If they don't help... Not another penny. They decided not to be allies.
     
  19. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Are you psychic? Are you saying that in every conflict since 1945, we haven't even tried? I guess it is just easier to make unsupported truth claims, if you don't have to back it up with evidence. I guess that since we have never won a war since then, it must be because we haven't tried to win. Right? Wow! Talk about the ends justifying the means fallacy(confirmation bias). Do you think that our military leaders really care so little about the lives of their soldiers? Do you really think that our military leaders, would willingly employ the least effective strategies, to produce the least effective results? Although, considering 19 years in Afghanistan, and 17 years in Iraq, it would seem that our only strategy is to prolong these wars indefinitely. I wonder who would benefit the most from our extended illegal occupation of sovereign countries? Certainly, NOT the people of these countries. Certainly, NOT the friends and families, who are accepting the body-bags of their loved ones. So, what is your evidence? Or, are you right because you say so?

    What have we paid for, exactly? Loyalty? Security? Obedience? Their Standing Armies? Servitude? What have we paid for through NATO? Are we paying for our allies' free will and free choice? What evidence supports that our allies' armies are being paid for by the US? I would like to think that our allies are joining us, because they also believe that we are ethically, morally, and legally right. We are no longer the symbol of Truth, Justice, Life, Liberty, and Happiness. We are the symbol of corporate greed, suffering and death, and fear mongering. Those that follow this madness, are un-Americans. This is not what America stands for. This is what the dark side of America stands for, and the ugly side of Capitalism..
    Have you ever heard of Soleimani, before he was murdered by the US? Of course not. Soleimani was a revered General of a faction of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards. He was the guy that prevented Isis and al Qaeda from taking over Bagdad. He is considered a hero to the people of Iran, and Iraq(judging by the millions that mourned him). Do you think we should be able to justify, any immoral action we take as a nation? Or, do you think that if we just label anyone as a terrorist, we can give ourselves consent to hunt them down, and take their lives? Regardless, of the cost, legality, or the consequences? Let's just kill anyone, and everyone we can label as a terrorist, no matter where they are, or who they are. Right? Screw NATO, screw our allies. Remember, America first at all costs. If a million civilians get killed in keeping us first, well then that's just too bad, right? And, anyone who thinks it is wrong to go around the world, causing misery, suffering, and death, then they are just un-American. If any country disagrees with us, we will sanction them, we will withhold funds from them, or we will label them as being un-American or a terrorist.



    I really wish that all the war-mongering chicken hawks, would be the first in line at the recruitment office. I wish THEY would be the ones to deliver the body-bags to the families and spouses. I really wish these believers in "might is always right", would put some real skin in the game. Rather than keep making unsupported truth claims, from the safety and security, of their own self-serving contrived pseudo-sophistry. Eventually, the world will make us accountable for our actions.
     
  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Their military. If they are not allies they are ungrateful bastards and should be cut off immediately.
     
  21. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    The only alleged "ally" who supports sacrificing more loyal American blood and resources in a conflict with Iran is, ironically, the real "ungrateful bastards" who should be cut off immediately:

    Netanyahu: “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away”

    http://web.archive.org/web/20060512...pecial_Reports/092105Madsen/092105madsen.html
     
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  22. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    No they're not ungrateful bastards we did not pay for the military only for them to say we're not helping you and your War.

    But like we would need Germany, France and Spain's help but it would be nice if they offered.

    I imagine that can't because they have let too many middle easterners into their country. If they entered the war they would have a war in their home country.
     
  23. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I have known about him for 10 years. He was just as dangerous a terrorist as Bin Laden. Even worse he was state sponsored. Iran is a sponsor of terrorism. It couldn't be more clear.
     
  24. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    I’m saying we haven’t gone all-out to win a war since WW II. We didn’t give 100% in Korea, Vietnam, or anywhere else. We didn’t give the same effort in those wars like we did against the Germans and Japanese.
     
  25. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    I just can't believe that anyone could even think that we are directly supporting the militaries of the 29 member NATO alliance. As usual, Trump misrepresents, misleads, and distorts, just how the NATO alliance is funded and how it operates. He only wants to stoke and appease the egos of his followers. He just tells them what they want to hear, and they accept it without question. He will never let the reality of the truth, get in the way of any ego-gratifying lie. It was under the Obama watch(2014), that NATO asked its members to increased their defense spending target commitments to 2% of their GDP. NOT Trump. 9 members have reached this target, including the US. This target commitment is only a guide, not an obligation. Please understand, that we are talking about a target increase in defence spending ON THEIR OWN MILITARY. Not, on any other country's military. Maybe you should look at countries like Saudi Arabia(18%), UAR(7.4%), Iraq(5.5%), Israel(3.7%), where America IS directly supplying and funding their military. It is the US that is the biggest supplier of arms in the world. Our weapons have killed more people, than any other country in the world. We are the only country to explode a nuclear weapon in war. Post 911, over half a million people have been killed in our "war on terrorism". We are the real traffickers in death, not the terrorists.

    Repeating the same lie, does not make it a truth. No matter how many times you repeat it. So, unless you can provide evidence, that the US is directly providing funds to the militaries of the NATO alliances, please stop lying. It is annoying, and I'm sure that you are better than this. We are all hardwired to delude ourselves, but we can do something about it.

    The only thing that is clear here, is how little you do know about Qassem Soleimani. What is also clear, is your lack of respect for the rule of law, and the rule of evidence. I'm sure that you might be less than consistent, if Germany drone-attacked a suspected terrorist on American soil, and killed 9 American citizen in the process. Once Mike Pompeo was grinning, while saying, "...we don't know where or when, but we did know that the threat was real and eminent...", I was ashamed to be an American. Obviously, you can't see the dangerous "slippery slope" that labeling a country, a person, or a group, as a terrorist will lead to. You also need to expand more on "state sponsored terrorism", since both the US and the UK, also state sponsor terrorism, through their proxy wars and covert operations. You do realize that we are over there, they are not over here, right?

    In WWII, we also were supported by 24 other nations, who agreed that our actions were just and moral. No ally agree with our policies today. The evidence of proof, is NOT the proof of evidence. It is a fallacy to assume that because we lost, that we did not try our best(confirmation bias). Unless, you can present the evidence. So, again, are you psychic? How do you know this to be a fact? If this is just your opinion, then please present the evidence. WHY do you think our military leaders are not giving 100%, to win any of the wars since WWII? Otherwise, your opinion is woefully uninformed.
     
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