American democracy is broken

Why should Americans feel obliged to vote? They have no one honest enough to lead the country to greatness since Eisenhower and (maybe) Carter. Kennedy was murdered, Nixon & Johnson only gave you war, Reagan was a liar exceptional, the Florida cheater system put Bush Baby George in office to lie about WMD's and illegally invade Irak murdering a million innocent men, women, and children. You don't believe Obama was an American citizen, and you think Trump was elected to office by Vladmir Putin.



So why would Americans think their vote will count for anything? I sympathize with them and if I were American I wouldn't vote either. Bravo Americans!

 

All of the above is becuase 60% turnout is considered shockingly high. Mandatory voting, public funding for elections (with no allowance for private funding) and instant runoff voting so people can vote for minor parties without fear of throwing away their vote would fix most of those issues.

 

You are moaning about what is too evident. The country can use a better, more talented class of politicians. Any PotUS that wants to go to war should be obliged first to commit their son/daughter to the front of it!

It's not difficult to get a more "participatory governance" in the land. People just need to feel that the effort is worth it.

Take the money out of politics and watch a lot of people with BigBucks understand that they cannot manipulate outcomes. More people will turn-up at elections if you make that a duty. (And a 150$ no-show fine would also help.)

And an entirely different brand of politician will run for office. With any luck, the majority of them will be women ... !

I personally don't believe Obama was anything but an American citizen. So, I don't understand to what you are referring.

 

No. The reason "all of the above" is because the American people have had no decent man to vote for anyway. McGovern was probably the only good man the U.S. had to offer .... and he lost the election.

An EXTREMELY BAD idea!

Tha sounds like a good idea!

That's the best idea I've heard in a long time but I don't know what "runoff voting" means. Let me know when you run and I'll vote for you. However, it won't take long for the guys in black hats to find a way to corrupt it. Still, it's a damned good start!

 

I've been saying that since the 1960's.

Absolutely.

Probably.

That would be turning the elections into a lottery! A really, really, dumb idea.

Take a good look & listen to Hillary Clinton, Maxine Waters, Sarah Palin, Zarna Joshi , Whoopie Golberg, Oprah Winfrey, and Nikki Haley. So please, do not repeat that.

"A different brand of politician" should come in all shapes and sizes. Voting for a colour or a gender is the best argument against making voting obligatory.

The discussion is NOT about what you think or what I think - it is about what the American population thinks. If such a large percentage of the U.S. believe Obama wasn't American-born or that Bush Baby cheated in Florida to get elected then that is part of the reason why Americans don't think voting is worth the bother of casting a ballot. They figure the whole thing is rigged anyway.

CREDIBILITY, not OBLIGATION, is the right way to get Americans to vote and so far I can see no reason to offer them any optimism.

 

Oh, getting a speeding ticket is a lottery? Not showing up on school days is a lottery?

What I meant is that its a "fine" for breach of one's democratic responsibility. Voting is a duty and the right to not-vote is just an excuse or a pretext for laziness.

Moreover, if you don't like what's happening and vote-blank, that too sends an important political message ...

NB: And it would be far easier to vote if there were "internet ballots". But, I suspect that would require some form of Identity Card (which is no great problem if based upon one's Social Security number. (And that alone is a damn fine document that can be used to find law-breakers.)

 

Runoff-voting is employed when there is a large field of voters for a position. Which of itself is goodness for any democracy. Because in broadening the choice voters get to hear more points-of-view, which they can judge "good or bad" and vote accordingly.

It actually means that if there are a large number of candidates, the runoff-vote is taken in a second-vote to decide the winner. Which happens in the EU a lot because there is no great tradition towards Two Major Parties.

A run-off vote in a larger field of candidates would not be a bad-thing for the US as well if the options were much broader than just two old and creaky political-parties ...

 

Why do you want to force people to pay for speech with which they may vehemently disagree? It's not that democracy is broken, it's that you whine endlessly when people don't give you what you want even though you vote for it.

 

This is a terrible idea and the result will be no better than rolling the dice.

 

At least you admit this is just another orange kan bad thread. Could have done away with all of the other BS though and just gotten right to the point in the OP.

 

The two-party system sucks. It is easily corrupted, simple to manipulate, and encourages inferior education where everything becomes two extremes. Not only "Republican or Democrat" but also, "With us or against us", "Love it or leave it", "Good or bad". It requires no knowledge ... only hearsay and absurd conclusions.

 

Getting messy. That you...you needed to be visual: pointing to a few rather small groups of opposite people. In the first 3 elections electors cast 2 votes on a blank ballot. Could we handle that as an electorate?

 

It needs "maintaining" and the core of the maintenance are laws.

The country needs to first renew its electoral mechanism. By getting get rid of the two elements the most obstructive to change at the top of the pyramid. Namely, Gerrymandering and the Electoral College (that corrupts the popular vote for the presidency, as it did when Donald Dork was elected).

And from there, Americans must find the courage to lessen the wasted expenditure on the DoD and spend Tax Revenues rather on National Healthcare and a Free Tertiary-level Education vocational, associates, bachelors, masters, doctorate). We need to better the talents of our people necessary for this new Information Age that is upon us.

And those are just starters. There's a lot to be done. But, if we, as a nation, continue to elect Replicants like Donald Dork the situation will not only diminish further but faster. They are wedded to the idea that "the best should succeed most" and enrich themselves. Which means there is no room for Economic Fairness.

Mark my words:
* Times are good right now. THAT IS NOT GOING TO LAST FOREVER.
* And when the 'fit hits the shan" a lot of people will be hurting.

Yet again as it did in the past not so long ago ...

 

Do you live in America? There's nothing prohibitive about our current system of voting. It is easy to vote, either by mail, by early vote or on election day. And there are voting places/stations everywhere.

 

The oldest and most effective trick in the book is to push the idea that the problem is blunders, dumb choices, and general stupidity of politicians. And it works so well because people want to believe it. And so the approximately 75% of the voting age public who didn't vote for Trump and now mostly oppose him believe we need to convince him or the Republicans or the Democrats of something. They believe we need a different politician. They believe a different argument is needed. They believe politicians need to wake up and "do what they should". They fail to see how this is the time for this kind of "president" to show up with these kinds of policies if capitalism is to survive.

The economy is ALWAYS in every country the foundation of society. Politics ALWAYS spring from the economic base and develop in service to it. As such, politics reflects the economics in play, and set the stage for the economic changes that are needed by the most powerful section of the capitalist class.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THE DAMAGE HE IS DOING TO TRADITIONAL USA IS NOT AN ACCIDENT NOR A COINCIDENCE. And this is why the RNC does not step up to the plate to save the Constitutional USA.

All that is needed is to look at the direction it is all going, ignore the inclination to attribute it to error or corruption or anything else. Just look at where it is going and then realize it is no mistake. It is no accident. It IS, indeed, going where it appears to be going.... to authoritarian dictatorship! Leading capitalists need authoritarianism to force our submission to the economy as they want it and need it. And that doesn't include consideration for healthcare, fair voting, higher wages, labor laws, freedom of speech, freedom of news reporting, fair judiciary, safety nets, or anyone's retirement needs.

If we cannot work up the determination and effective strategy to stop the direction this is going, this is the end of the USA as you and I have known it, and the beginning of the collapse of any semblance of democracy and freedom we ever thought we had.

Like many others here, I grew up during the time that represented the best the USA had to offer. And now I fear we are going to experience the worst it will ever have to offer. Just remember: this is all no accident or "mistake".

 

I am a Yank that votes in the US who lives abroad. From here:

That makes us the 10th largest "state"! (See here.) So, stop barking up the wrong tree!

The fact that it is never on a weekend is prohibitive to voter turnout!

The fact that the Electoral College's winner-takes-all-votes rule nullifies/voids/invalidates the popular-vote of those who DID NOT VOTE FOR THE WINNER and thus should be illegal ipso-facto!

It is clear that any effort to nullify a qualified popular-vote should of itself be made illegal and proper punishment afflicted to any state that does so ... !

 

Pure ignorance of the legal facts. How dumb some people can get.

Blame is appointed to any who are responsible for the act. That is a fundamental legal rule of and and all nations that purport be Fair & Just.

If you are driving a car and hit someone, YOU are at fault. Not the city that provided you the street on which to drive!

If you don't get that fundamental notion of law, you don't deserve to be commenting upon it ... !

 

INSTANT runoff voting. In a runoff election, the top 2 canadates (by vote totals) in an election, neither having 50%+1, run a 2nd time. With only 2 canadates a literal 50/50 tie is the worst case scenario meaning a winner with a popular mandate (unlike plurality elections like the US has where simply having more votes than everyone else is sufficient) takes office.

With instant runoff voting, a voter votes multiple times, listing preference each time. If a voter's favored candidate loses, rather than simply becoming irreverent (the throw away vote), their vote goes to the next most preferred. This has the effect of a runoff election without having to host a 2nd election meaning a voter can vote for a candidate they really like no matter how low the odds of victory without fear of having no real say in the results. This also means a would be also ran can collect far more votes than they 'should' (especially as a secondary choice) meaning minor parties actually have a shot at impacting lawmaking beyond serving as spoilers/kingmakers.

 

You were on the right track but then you fell into a ditch.

Blaming Republicans (and/or the citizens who voted for Trump) is simply perpetuating the very problem you detest. Offer the people someone else better than Hitlery Clinton (from whatever party at all) and that is probably the person they will vote for. I realize that Americans are some of the least informed and worst educated but they are not really stupid.

 

I've been saying this for years but no one is listening. It should be condensed, framed, and nailed to the wall of every abode to replace "Home Sweet Home".

 

It sounds complicated. What do the majority of Ameicans think of it?

 

This is blindingly obvious to anyone who is not trying to do it.

 

If I could make sense of your post, I'd address it.

 

The USA has its share of problems. The voting experience isn't one of them.

 

I'd pursue on that one, but I am getting tired of the array of one-liners.

They are for Message Boards, not Debate Forums ....