An honest discussion about Racism? Thread #2

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by AndrogynousMale, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. AndrogynousMale

    AndrogynousMale Active Member

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    Thread #1: http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=327967

    The discussion became a little uncivil, so please don't use insults against each other.

    Here's the original text:

    I've been on this forum for seven months now, and I'm noticing an alarming trend whenever racism is discussed.

    I don't mean to generalize, but I've observed whenever racism is discussed, liberals and conservatives only look at certain angles and focus on certain groups.

    For example, there are many posts in the Current Events section about black on white crime, and often from the same posters. Yet I notice these same people never talk about racism when it's against minorities, but only when it happens to a white person. I also notice how many conservative members here always want to ignore talking about racism committed by whites. I'm no race baiter, but is it really hard to recognize that many whites still hold racist attitudes towards minorities?

    I also have the same problem with the more liberal-minded members. I've been told that whites can't be discriminated against because they have power and privilege over minorities, therefore it's impossible to be racist towards whites or any ethnic group that represents the majority. My problem with this view is that they're ignoring Institutional Racism, which is where a group (White/Black/Asain/etc) has the highest population and has racist attitudes towards any racial minorities. This is where the power+privilege argument would work. The problem is that many progressive members seem to equate Racism and Institutional Racism instead of recognizing the difference between the two. Anyone can be racist, but Institutional Racism is usually committed by an ethnic majority. A lot of progressives here also seem to brush off racism towards whites as something that's no big deal.

    The point that I'm trying to make is that most people tend to favor certain groups when discussing racism. It's also one of the main reasons why I stay out of most of the race threads, because what I stated above always happens. If I point out that minorities can be racist against whites, I get accused of being racist and not checking my white privilege, and if I point out that racial minorities are still discriminated against, I get called a "Race baiter" or slandered with terms like "Anti White." It seems like both ends of the political spectrum pick sides in racism debates, and they cling dearly to those tactics.

    Shouldn't we all be fighting racism, and not just when it happens to someone who shares our skin color or political ideology?
     
  2. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Isn't being uncivil to one another in regards to this subject the essence of racial 'discussions' in this nation, and therefore the participants simply reflected with pinpoint accuracy the true nature of the United States as it is today?
     
  3. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There will ALWAYS be some form of racism in the world (NOT just America)!

    In the early 1900's with immigration going strong in the US, the Irish (Micks) and the Italians (Ginzos) were at each other's throats. In small town WI (350 ppl) where my mother was raised, in the 1920's, it was the Germans against the Italians,

    I see it as ALL 'tribal,' where the tribes had to separate for hunting grounds, staking out territory, the purity of the tribe thru commonality, etc.

    The Black/White thing is both cultural and drastic contrast in skin color, & often features, and in our backyard.

    Face it..."Who" determines what beauty is these days?!
     
  4. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    But certainly, we (as a nation) should NEVER purpose to revere 'racism', nor give those who propagate the same any form of 'honor'.

    If we stick to that, things will become or be better overall.
     
  5. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    You didn't get a very honest discussion about race in the last thread, so why would you try again.
     
  6. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Even so, it's not something that people should simply NOT discuss.

    It's going to take more than people think, to resolve/reconcile the social evils of this nation's past/present. That a certain level of difficulty and dishonesty accompanies discussion on this topic, should not be surprising one iota.

    Some people do not WANT to reject the evil they've embraced (for whatever reasons).
     
  7. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    The very notion that racism is a Black versus White issue artificially limits the discussion since in reality it's an intermix of Brown-Hispanic (thanks to the Left for that new classification), White (which is in itself a vague classification) Black (inaccurately covering people who do not necessarily agree themselves on the classification system), Asian (which covers a positively huge spectrum in and of itself) Middle-Eastern (ditto), and even Native American (and don't dare confuse a member of one tribal grouping with a member from another). The fact that the issue of racism in the United States almost always boils down to White versus Black is due primarily to professional race hustlers like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton.
     
  8. flounder

    flounder In Memoriam Past Donor

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    Agreed OD,,in my day here in NY there was Little Italy and the Bowery guys, and lets not forget China town, not much love loss between these groups.
     
  9. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Ah but when only one political side or ideology is allowed to identify racism as being genuine then that brings into question their motivations and honesty . . . which in turn elevates blood pressure and raises internal temperatures.
     
  10. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Education and having ppl 'face' their prejudices helps. And the paradox the nation faced at it's founding was all men created equal, but that the Negro slave was not given equal rights as early America enjoyed.

    Having come thru the 60's Civil Rights movement, as well as having been a mil dependent in mixed race schools with a Black catcher in Little League as my best friend, a Black barracks mate in the USAF who dated White German girls w/me, and having dated a Black Go-Go dancer in college, I've seen a "big" change in the way the majority of America now thinks----unfortunately, the election of Obama which shud have been a good thing, has turned into a divisive situation based on policy---not race, but being blamed on race...how very sad for this 60's Civil Rights supporter.
     
  11. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Yep, in my youth -- with my rather predominant brown-skin-toned Mediterranean ancestry I wasn't considered White in the deep south of Texas and yet today thanks to reclassification efforts I am considered a member in good standing of the HATED and EVIL White majority oppressor class . . . which I find amusing as hell. From despised minority in my youth to oppressor majority status at some point in my adulthood and it took me decades in my adulthood to even realize that it had happened.

    Let me just add that therefore I find things in both the liberal and conservative perspective regarding the races and racism to be -- um -- ludicrous.
     
  12. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    Johnny, you're as much apart of the problem with the issue of race as the people who hold racist views, or act as apologists for racist views.
     
  13. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that is untrue, right? That was dishonest and inaccurate enough. And while I'm not saying YOU are the problem, it's clear that contributing to the same isn't difficult to do.

    Black men (as those you listed) and myself DO have some reasons to challenge the traditionally status quo in America, but that does not make such me "race hustlers" per se. Advocating for EQUALITY (as any minority knows) can be a messy endeavor. It surely makes enemies and can even garner attacks on one's reputation.

    In truth, Jackson and Sharpton have done a great deal of good, especially where it comes to shinning 'light' upon the problem of racism in this society. And without that light, many injustices would NOT have been known. What they have done is nothing like a 'hustle', it's more like Paul Revere crying, "The British are coming!", to a nation asleep and unaware.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's your inept perception.

    I say, get yourself to a place where you can focus properly overall.
     
  14. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

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    Racism is something everyone has in them. The difference is learning to check it, realize it is wrong, and try to repent for it and ask forgiveness if you are religious. If you are a Godless heathen, you can do whatever. ;)

    Racism in politics is used for power purposes, and it is shameful and deplorable.

    Racism in education is used to perpetuate a sense of inferiority among minorities and oppression, and to instill guilt into white people. The end game is that racial politics when played is received well in the black community that feels oppressed, and the white community remains silent because of their guilt.

    Racism of ay kind, vs. white, vs. latino etc... is wrong. Always. It sets people against each other, and solidifies tribalism and undermines what America should represent. It is the opposite of "out of many, one".
     
  15. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Mostly Jackson and Sharpton have simply either created or inflamed situations so that they could financially benefit (or at least increase their image status as a result) leaving behind them more problems than had they simply kept their mouths shut.
     
  16. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I also think much of it is 'cultural.' Ppl who are different than 'us' are uneasing and often threatening to our nice, little, comfortable, categorized position in society.

    Cultural differences often 'offend' us and 'our' culture! It's just like music preferences...I like the Oldie Rock and Smooth Jazz, but cant stand Rap and most Hip Hop. And vice versa with the younger generation! Ppl tend to be narrow minded in their likes and adjust their outlook accordingly..for some it becomes anti-Black culture.'
     
  17. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    My experiences are similar to your own. I've spent the last 33+ years in the military; I have become accustomed to the highly functional and rewarding diversity.

    As far as President Obama (and the effect of his ethnicity upon the nation), I'm happy that it happened sooner than later. His candidacy and service has flushed-out many racists and/or racist attitudes in this society; things which many had conveniently swept under a rug of their choice; those who have a tendency to imagine that problems such as racism or inequality would/could lie dormant somewhere and fade from existence. I wasn't shocked a bit to see racists lose their heads (eventually); even many racist politicians actually using racism to motivate or activate their "base". :(

    Due to my decades in the military, I know that diversity is largely a source of this nation's strength; and that those who would pit one American against another for political purposes, are indeed the greatest danger to this society and the spirit of this nation's Constitution. It's something I can almost taste.

    Racism itself, especially the abjectly purposeful forms of the same... needs to be rejected, much as 'pedophilia' is. In that, the best solutions will eventually come to greater and greater fruition.
     
  18. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    I've also always considered it to be primarily cultural differences. In that respect race-conscious leftwingers had the correct idea, which was to put the cultures and lifestyles of 'alien peoples' so much in the majority culture's face that gradually the alienation factor dissipates. That's how you do it, over time.
     
  19. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, Flounder, it was the "Dumb Micks" and the "Greasy Ginzos" which is disconcerting to me being 1/2 each..ha ha

    Btw, Welcome back...(actually, I didnt know you were gone as I took a 5 mo sabbatical!)
     
  20. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Even so, there should be little tolerance for racist words or actions. That is the attitude to start from, if no other place.
     
  21. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Ah but when only one political side or ideology DECIDES what is or is not racism then that brings into question their motivations and honesty . . . which in turn elevates blood pressure and raises internal temperatures.
     
  22. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    I am sure that their service or actions have led to some benefit, but your characterization of them above is mostly a matter of perception... which I cannot take from you. Some seem to want the equivalent of the 'battered' remaining quiet (as some spouses tend to), but I say that resolves or heals nothing.

    Even so, I have seen great value in the fact they have brought attention to many injustices. In fact, I thank God for that. (And honestly, I've always wondered why more White men have not been active in doing the same.)
     
  23. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Over time" is both the education and desensitization of society..leading to acceptance and even the 'norm'
     
  24. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    You mean why they should pretend that things are one way when actually they are another? I can think of many reasons why they don't do that.
     
  25. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Yes, exactly; which was why the Right of Center voters DID NOT take to the streets in bouts of race-based riots to protest President Obama winning in 2008; and mostly instead they simply shrugged and treated him like they would have ANY OTHER Democratic Party president. His race simply wasn't a big deal (on the whole anyway) to Right of Center voters.
     

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