Anti-racism protesters vandalized statue of Winston Churchill

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-george-floyd-protest-on-anniversary-of-d-day

They say he was a racist and war criminal.

They obviously forgot that Churchill made a significant contribution to smash the most dangerous racist regime of his time.

 

In Bristol a statue of Colston(a slave trader) was thrown in the docks. Today on GMTV a popular breakfast show they were talking about Bristols history involving the slave trade, the presenter said that it made her skin crawl when she lived in Bristol and went to Black Boy Hill and Whiteladies Road, I never realised Charles II (the black boy) and Carmelite Nuns (the white ladies) were so controversial! Still it sounds racist and that appears to be enough, facts have nothing to do with it!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-bristol-52943550

 

He probably was both by our standards but that was how things were then. When they were evicting Scot's in The Clearances and sending them against their will to the America's they complained they were being treated like 'Negros'. He is also known for other things - big cigars and too much Cognac. He also agreed with the bombing of Dresden and then pretended it was nothing to do with him when the people came out against it!! ...and then there is the gassing in Iraq and one or two other things which people like yourself give him credit for in WW2

I have more understanding of the one in Bristol which apparently had been a long standing issue. Churchill was a lot of things. The Bristol fellow while giving a lot in charity to white people, made that money from the enslavement of Black people and all that ensued from that both then and since.

 

There was a petition in Bristol to have it removed it only got 11000 signatures of a population of 500000, should a tiny minority have their way?
As I have shown there is tremendous ignorance about places like Black Boy Hill and Whiteladies road. Should they be renamed because they upset ignorant people? What we need to do is educate people not tear down statues.

 

Do you come from Bristol? I knew nothing about the Statue before yesterday and what I heard suggested the desire to have it removed was stronger than you are saying.

I said I understood not necessarily supported. That being said he did sound like a sign of what people are protesting about - which seems to be the attitude towards black people since slavery. And hence on a symbolic level the toppling of him seems appropriate - when the reasons that is so are healed, then things would be different.

The Churchill one which I know nothing about except this thread did not sound appropriate to me and obviously the only way which these protests are going to bring about the change which I believe they could is if they are done peacefully and ideally with some vision.

I did not really understand why Corbyn was wanting us in school to look at our colonial past and our part in slavery and a whole lot more dreadful things which are our heritage but this has made me able to see that for what it is. If we do not look at what we did to people of different colour, we keep in our minds wrong viewpoints which every now and then racists like to say. It is very possible that it is only by facing our past that we can psychologically change deep viewpoints which colour our views and by that also free the people harmed by them.

 

The toppling of Edward Colston's statue is not an attack on history. It is history

 

I spent twenty years living in Bristol, I was in St Pauls (Picton St) during the race riots, it destroyrd the local community and did us no favours.
Here is a link to the petition https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petiti...IMCIkFNPc_W2Sy9VVNbHncGA352K1KpEmppi-y7FUV7iA
I wanted the statue removed but not this way, it will just be used against the majority of peaceful protesters who are right, just as the riots were used against the peaceful majority of people in St Pauls.

 

Like I said......before this is over......

ALL American President statutes will be declared "racist" along with any and every statue or symbol that does not celebrate the "diversity" side.

This is not a selective campaign, it is all encompassing.

 

Obama the Immaculate sent Churchill's bust back to the UK, so the WWII PM had to have been a really bad man like Orange Man bad. Obama's action is full justification for the eradication of the history and memory of Churchill by the woke.

 

Churchill was raised and educated under and fought for the preservation of British Imperialism so of course he was racist. Hell, the Brits didn't even considered the whites from other commonwealth nations to be their equals more like readilly available canon fodder. Ask the Anzac and Canadians about that.
He's also partly responsible for the 1943 Bengal famine taht killed 2 to 4 millions people.

 

"Author Nikolai Tolstoy described the scene of Americans returning to the internment camp after delivering a shipment of people to the Soviet authorities: "The Americans returned to Plattling visibly shamefaced. Before their departure from the rendezvous in the forest, many had seen rows of bodies already hanging from the branches of nearby trees."[6]

Nigel Nicolson, a former British Army captain, was Nicolai Tolstoy's chief witness in the libel action brought by Lord Aldington. In 1995, he wrote:

Fifty years ago I was a captain in the British Army, and with others I supervised the Jugoslav (Yugoslav) 'repatriation', as it was euphemistically called. We were told not to use force, and forbidden to inform them of their true destination. When they asked us where they were going, we replied that we were transferring them to another British camp in Italy, and they mounted the trains without suspicion. As soon as the sliding doors of the cattle-trucks were padlocked, our soldiers withdrew and Tito's partisans emerged from the station building where they had been hiding, and took over command of the train. The prisoners and refugees could see them through cracks in the boarding, and began hammering on the insides of the wagons, shouting abuse at us for having betrayed them, lied to them, and sentenced at least the men among them to a grotesque death. There is now no doubt about their hideous fate, and to those of us on the spot there was little doubt then. Shortly after the first trainloads had been despatched, we heard the stories of the few survivors who escaped back to Austria, and thousands of manacled skeletons have since been disinterred in Slovenian pits.[7]" Operation Keelhaul, Wiki

Operation Keelhaul was carried out under Truman, a democrat. Many of those turned over to Stalin for torture and death had fought as paramilitary beside US troops. Makes you puke up your breakfast.

 

I was working in Brixton during the 1981 riots and believed there was good reason for this as did the enquiry into them. The far right Tories now in charge were trying to send them 'home'.

We will need to wait and see how things progress. I have been listening to a lot of this both in the US and here and my perception is that there is a lot of quality thinking going on - something which we most certainly need. Trump is working on getting his fascist authoritarian State going supported by same. But there is more to it than that. The US people have been sold out by both parties redistributing their money from them to the Rich. Marches, protests and even riots had been predicted by many though it was not expected it would begin by black people. I was listening to a psychiatrist talking about the murder. Looking into things and deciphering them having watched the full footage. He believes it was a premeditated murder. What is amazing and good is that so many American white people are standing with them.

Now, with the Internet Age oppressed groups are able to be in contact with each other and help each other. During Ferguson it was the Palestinians who the American's protesting thought they got the most help from. The Military police the people of the US need to put up with were trained there - or rather in Israel - or in most States they were. Some refused to send them.

So British Blacks and anti racists decide to stand with those in America suffering. It is not true however that in the UK we are free of these abuses. Indeed we have been moving to an increase in this attitude with the rise of the far right. Hence the argument is to look at us as well. This is all the more pertinent with the rise of Muslim hatred and that being followed as it has with hatred of blacks. Do you know LowKey? He has done research on what we were like when we were colonising and it is far worse that we have been given a hint of. The understanding of that is not to feel guilty. There is no way I would feel guilty of what some people did a hundred or two hundred years ago. I was not there. However knowing and understanding how it has affected people and how psychological attitudes hold this together is another thing. We are headed for either fascism or a move back to democracy - away from the Plutocracy we are in. If we want the move back to Democracy then the foundation of democracy is that everyone has equal rights. We need to know and understand and be able to talk and where necessary set things right - or we can allow the elite to get us hating 'the other' whenever they want to tread on us all a bit more.

I do not think crazily pulling down British Statues would accomplish anything.

However I do notice that when we go into countries we are very happy pulling down their statues.

This particular Statue as I said was at the heart of what the protests are about. I do not think it would be a helpful thing for this to become a part of protests but I can understand why this particular one was brought down. Hopefully the point is made by it.

 

It's well known that Roosevelt and Truman played the Russian against the Brits to help bring about the end of UK influence in Europe. The USA had already concede d to the soviet the eastern european nation to their sphere of influence over Churchill objections.

 

It's one hard arse imperfect world. Churchill and Truman both had troops executing Operation Keelhaul "repatriation." Makes you puke up your breakfast.

 

Not to mention ending the last great bastion of slavery in the world at the same time.

 

In Churchill's time, most white people were racists. For them, blacks were half-human and half-animal. One can't blame them. They just didn't know better.

 

False. They knew better but the elite back then, which Churchill was part of, were profiting from it. The elite are the problem.

 

No the problem is thugs that think they own the moral high ground and have the god given right to go about dictating to the rest of society how we should perceive history and how we should subscribe to their views on the rights of property and historical/political intellectual interpretation thereof; and their inherent right to take matters into their own hands should it not meet with their approval.

They and their ideas can go and piss up a tree.
Phucking morons should understand they don't have the absolute right to arbitrate on what does and does not constitute the moral compass of a nation - phuck the lot of them.

 

Maybe some slowly realized that blacks were just normal humans like themselves. But they couldn't implement this finding.

Racism was deeply rooted in society and wasn't considered a bad thing. People would have had everyone against them if they had campaigned for equal dignity and rights of white and colored people. "Blacks belong to a lower level than whites" was considered will of the creator by many.

For me, it looks like humanity will continue to suffer from racism for a long time.

 

No they didn't they decided to damage property and commit crimes for which they justify in the name of "black lives matter". They think that this is a perfectly reasonable action based on their views in the context of their moralistic crusades against a society which has no means to defend itself based on the actions of previous generations.

 

....and this comes as a surprise to you, or was that merely rhetorical?

 

I wrote that as a conclusion. We don't have a panacea on how to get rid of racism for good. Anti-racist protesters don't attack nor harm the core of racism. In some weeks they'll be history and racial discrimination will continue as if nothing had happened.

 

They themselves are the biggest racial discriminators in the nation.

 

That is not the truth. It is your bias showing. The motivation was the killing in the US, one in which a psychiatrist who had watched the full footage said he believed was a deliberate murder and the cop should be done for 1st degree murder. Of course this happens all the time in the US. People are however feeling more touchy what with losing jobs and dying at 4 times the rate of white people not least because they tend to be more employed in jobs which serve the people. However for quite some time now oppressed people have been working together to try and find some way to support each other in their issues.

Now about crimes. Just who is the person who has committed the crimes? Clearly it is the person whose statue was brought down. A man who put into enslavement over 80,000 human beings, who branded their chests and when a quarter of them died when he had them chained in his boats which were not fit for getting them safely to their destination, he threw their bodies into the sea. Some of these human beings were children. Now a lot of black people live in this area. Have you ever experienced prejudice. I bet you have not. I bet you have no idea of how it affects someone - at least I hope you have no idea given that you appear to be supporting it. The statue spoke about how virtuous this slave trader was. Black people living in the area needed to see this ever day. Can you not understand the emotional violence in that. Not only were they made into slaves, not only did a quarter of the people die and a lot of them children, people every day had to look at this Statue which the people of Bristol were endorsing saying that being a slave trader and killing a quarter of those you took was a virtue. Do not suggest to me you have any moral superiority to these people because you do not.

I think they decided to throw it in on that day. The police who were there decided to just let them. What the hell in 2020 in a multi cultural society do we show off that we, we being white supremacist, enslaved these people and made ourselves and our people rich by so doing. Why do we applaud using human beings as slaves. Why do we support the killing of a quarter of those so taken.

That statue should have been removed a long time ago.

Sajid Javid has asked for information as to where other statues are which applaud slave trading in order that they may be taken down and not be honoured or a daily scorn on a sizeable proportion of our people.

Starmer has correctly said that honouring such people which is what having those statues up is about is wrong. Honouring Slavery is not something we should be doing. Alternatively the Statue and others like it. if it is worth keeping them, can be put into Museums where people may learn the cruelty and inhumanity of slavery.

Awe baby are you playing the I don't want to feel guilty card. You wouldn't. You have shown you have no problem with our past activity in this. What you do not understand is how this affects people and how what can be done to make things right in any decent society, in any democracy where all people have equal rights ought to be done. You will know I said in a post that this is nothing about feeling guilty. Your little feelings are just an excuse to try and keep the past in the present which is what they acted to change.

 

oy'vey....If you believe that then you are not the intelligent person I thought you were.

...so phucking what!!!! Does that then justify criminal damage...shall we all just resort to our own form of arbitrary justice so as to sate our fleeting desires...I tell you what I don't like the ties that Nelson Mandela wore thus I'm going to tear down and piss all over his statues; he is the epitome of bad dress sense!

Oh please....how absurd can you be!! Don't jump on the bleeding hearts moral band wagon and try and re-write history to fulfil a modern political agenda. If you want to rail at the historical monuments of the world then please go ahead but just remember that history has context and to interpret it for your whimsical moralistic desires is just pathetic. I tell you what let's go and protest outside RAF Scampton at the awful actions of Guy Gibson!! That bastard was the squadron leader of 617 squadron (Dambusters) and he had a black Labrador dog which he called D(N)igger so let's all go and pull down statues and flounce around in indignant huffs at this bastards disgraceful slight against the black people.

Let's go and re-write all of history! Or better still...let's let the mob deal with it on our behalf....let's let the mob arbitrate on what constitutes an affront to their delicate sensibilities.

I can't be bothered with the rest.