It won't happen - they wouldn't dare. But if they do then the answer's simple - return the expats of the offending countries back to theirs. It isn't effing rocket science. No link provided because it's a youtube bulletin.
It may be a little more complicated than that. On another forum on which I post, a member is a UK citizen who has retired to Greece and who is currently very, very concerned. He is in OK health, his wife is in poor health. If Greece does not continue to allow them to use local healthcare then they'll have to return to the UK (they cannot afford private healthcare insurance). Moving back to the UK would be very expensive and, given that they have been out of the UK property market for 15 years or so, affording somewhere to live would be a challenge. Even if they are allowed to stay in Greece (and they hope that they can) then there's all kinds of hurdles they may now have to clear, like getting the right kind of international driving licences (requires a trip back to the UK), permissions to remain and so on. What's particularly galling is that, because he has no idea what's going to happen in a little over 2 weeks time, he has no idea what provisions he will have to make. You make it seem that deporting hundreds of thousands of people to their country of origin is a simple thing - I don't think it is. Not only would it be immensely disruptive for the people directly involved, but the communities where people will be arriving/departing will also be badly affected. For example, a friend is a midwife. She is Danish but trained in the UK and so has lived here for 35 years. She has been told that, post Brexit, she will have to apply to remain in the UK. She isn't prepared to do that so she's making plans to return to Denmark (where her midwifery skills will be much appreciated). Two more members of the local midwifery team are EU nationals and are making similar plans. The local team is therefore losing around a third of their number, and their most experienced midwives.
Extreme action calls for extreme re-action? Nobody said it was 'a simple thing', but that's no reason to not do it in extremis? We'd look effing daft if our ex-pats start getting chucked out and we just supinely watch it happen. Not to mention that with the ongoing dire housing shortage we'd need the deportees' housing for our own returnees.
Sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you said: I guess, but if the result is "breaking" the NHS or some similar outcome then it'd be an example of cutting off our noses to spite our faces. Personally I think it's very unlikely, not least because the bellicose language about ex-pats has tended to come from the UK government. Contrast the UK's actions towards a 35 year NHS veteran (telling her that she needs to apply for residency, that she needs to pay for it and stating that she gets no special consideration for her NHS service or being married to a Brit) to UK expats in EU countries who have received letters reassuring them that their right to remain and access to healthcare will be preserved regardless of the Brexit outcome. That housing is mostly owned by private landlords or the deportees themselves. Are you suggesting that the government seizes these properties and assigns them, or is it just a case of market forces depressing property sale and rental values ?
When they moved abroad then they went through that expense but I would say it's foolish if they moved without making a financial backup plan if they have to come back. They made their bed and so they lie in it.
The onus will be on our government provide returnees with accommodation, so if that's what's needed, then so be it. The deportees will have only their own governments to blame for forcing ours into that situation.
That's interesting...I'm going through the opposite process... trying to repatriate my social security and state pension entitlements from Germany to the UK.... I don't understand why your mate doesn't have a Greek driving license though...seems odd not to have one if he lives there - I just transferred my UK one for a German one took about an hour...and vise versa when I came back DVLA took the German one and gave me a UK one. Regards healthcare/insurance, why wouldn't he have proper cover in Greece? Does he just use the EHIC? I thought EHIC cards only provided emergency provision so what's he been doing for the rest of the time?
Yeah kindda... I mean if you're going to move south for the remainder of your clog time then one assumes you'd make an orderly provision and ditch the UK stuff and get the local stuff...so to speak... I think a lot of people that have done a body swerve down to climes warmer have sort of done it in a half arsed sort of way....I mean...if you are going to life in a country that ain't blighty then you adopt that country, its systems and make the requisite provisions for living and popping your clogs in that country...
Not a mate, just an online acquaintance so I don't know a great deal about his circumstances in detail. From what he has posted: He didn't bother to get a Greek driving licence because he didn't need one, as an EU licence his UK licence was fine. Apparently converting the licence in Greece isn't as easy as with the DVLA and could take several months during which time he would not be entitled to drive unless he gets an international licence instead. He views getting an international driving licence as a slight inconvenience. As a resident, healthcare support goes far beyond EHIC. Essentially it's reciprocated, the Greek health service provides the service free at the point of access and then cross-charges the UK. In Southern European countries, this represents a significant saving over the NHS providing the service. There is significant doubt whether this would continue post-Brexit and i particular post no-deal Brexit but he has recently received notification from the Greek government that this will continue post-Brexit Pensions and so forth should be OK for him unless there are issues with international money transfers and UK pension rules post-Brexit. He retired to Greece and his UK pensions are paid into UK accounts and transferred across, the costs and fuss are minimal. There is a small risk that his UK state pension could be frozen at its current value rather than being subject to the "triple-lock" and if transfers to the EU are as expensive as they are from the US (my father loses a few percent of his US Social Security as a result of currency conversion and transaction fees) then that would be a minor irritation and crimp on their budget I hope that repatriating your entitlements from Germany goes smoothly.
That's all true, but it does complicate things if the rules suddenly change once you've moved. For example, with respect to retirees' healthcare, as per EU-regulations this is free at the point of access locally and then billed to the NHS. Retirees would have had good reason to be confident that this would continue. If instead they have to make private health insurance provision that would be a significant chunk out of what was previously disposable income - especially for older people for whom premiums are considerably higher.
yeah its a bummer indeed...hope all works out for him me too...shouldn't be an issue....he says with hopeful confidence....hmmmm
What's to prevent the UK for paying for the healthcare of expats in other countries? Surely it's possible for some sort of deal to be reached. I don't see this issue as being intrinsically tied to Brexit.
In theory it would be possible to reach a deal, in practice it may be more complicated (as the whole Article 50 omnishambles has demonstrated) given that there is no consensus in the UK, much less between the two parties. In the event of "no-deal" there are no deals, at least on day 1 and the UK becomes a "third country" and all arrangements enshrined in EU law become void. Other EU countries can choose to continue to operate on the same basis as they do now but the offer would have be be made by the UK, and the other country would have to choose to accept it. That process would likely become part of the overall post-Brexit arrangement and processes would need to be put in place to make sure that the UK wasn't being overcharged, that the EU countries weren't being under-reimbursed and that there was some kind of adjudication process in place. Given that part of the rationale for Brexit was that the UK would no longer be "under the yoke of EU oppression", any agreement by which the UK would be bound to any EU adjudication would be contentious to say the least.
The UK could just pay for medical care in Greece. Surely that would be less expensive than paying for that medical care through the NHS. If anything you'd think the UK would want to encourage its citizens to seek out cheaper medical treatment in other lower cost of living countries to save money. I'm not sure any deal with other countries is really needed, other than perhaps oversight to make sure the money they'd be paying would be going to good use.
Agreements with the EU tend to be pan-EU agreements. Greece and Spain may offer cheaper treatment, other Northern European countries may be more expensive. Of course post-Brexit, if there is no agreement in place, the costs to the NHS are zero unless the ex-pats choose to return to the UK. I think you're being very optimistic about how willing the Greek (or Spanish, or German) health service would be about the UK in effect having oversight of their services. I'm pretty sure that if the shoe were on the other foot, that the UK would be up in arms if "foreigners" were telling the NHS what it can and cannot do. Likewise, there'd need to be provisions in place to make sure that the UK really did reimburse the other health service in full - and if not a legally binding grievance resolution process to adjudicate in the event of disagreement. This would be highly contentious in the UK, the EU having a say in the way that our NHS money is spent.
I see theyre going to use a backstop for Brexit.. Would that be Alan Knott, or Alex Stewart....or maybe Godfrey Evans....no wait...hes dead.... so's Brexit.... Maybe they should get Laurel and Hardy to solve Brexit....no wait...theyre dead too....
Well that's one of the downsides of having a public health system, isn't it? Once it goes into the hands of government everything becomes politicized, and agreements have to be reached before they can solve problems and sometimes they can't agree on anything. Americans would never have this problem. I'm pretty sure you are probably correct in your assessment. But it still might be easier if the UK just reimbursed maybe 60% of the health costs, and just went by standard Greek rules for ease. That would still benefit expats and be cheaper than providing for UK citizens in the UK.
