Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greatest I am, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?

    Our first allegiance is to our countries.

    Our laws and political leanings are moving us towards laïcité, a rather rigid form of the best religious freedoms/ideology, quirky or not, for all. Keep it to yourself will be the order of the day. Happy days. All within a Western style of freedom seeking governance.

    Should our backwards thinking mainstream religions be asked to be more representative of good law?

    Negative discrimination without a just cause is what Yahweh admits to doing in Job 2;3., when he allowed Satan to move him to sin against Job.

    Christians should admit their sin and stop preaching that it is a good to be homophobic and misogynous, contradicting the law of the land.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  2. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Is it? What exactly is the basis of that? What counts as "our countries"? People/inhabitants/rulers/family/land/law/etc.?

    I think they already have been asked. By you, if nothing else. This seems to be only half of the battle dealt with. Now think about how we go about convincing people or churches of this, how to incentivise churches.

    Ugh, you're making me look up the particular verse. I've pasted it here for future readers. You need another couple of verses to actually get to the point you're talking about (and of course, the full context is in the source link).

    3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”
    4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life.
    5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
    6 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”
    (Source)​

    I may be misinterpreting something, but this seems to be a different point than the rest of the post (this seems to be about God's actions, rather than Churches' actions).

    And thieves should stop stealing stuff, bullies should stop bullying and EA should stop charging microtransactions for in-game hats. I don't particularly disagree with your point, but I feel like the real political question is what to do to realise the effect that we want, given that the Christians are likely to disagree, and things like freedom of religion needs to be at least addressed.
     
  3. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    The protection of "People/inhabitants/rulers/family/land/law/etc,", cannot happen without the government and that is why "flag" is used to encompass those you name.

    The Pledge of Allegiance & The American's Creed (statesymbolsusa.org)

    All you can do is what Constantine did. Buy them and threaten them while paying them to destroy the competition. Typical fascist regime.

    If the fact that so many are leaving churches is not enough to sensitize them, they are too close to death to help.

    Education and a brighter next generation will do the rest, but too late to help us out of the coming global crisis and potential extinction of man as we know him.

    That Job thing was just to show that Christians call the evil god good in that myth, and they do the same error when seeing their children leave the church.

    They call that good evil, by ignoring that the child is thinking in a more moral way.

    He can see that Yahweh is a satanic god while their parents see that evil entity as good.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  4. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Newly Registered

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    Job 2:6 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.” The Lord has always allowed Satan to tempt man including binding man physically. This is nothing new. He just answered Satan and said what about the righteous man, Job. Now, as far as who is our allegiance to first, the Constitution answers this by stating that we are free to express our religion. Thus, our allegiance to God is separate from allegiance to our Country. Most religions of the U.S. acknowledge the requirement to obey the laws of the land we live in. Therefore, a Church cannot take a person's life or place them in a jail for sinning. The Government is the only one that can do this. Therefore, Church and State are not opposed to each other.
     
  5. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Statism is a a religion that is as backwards as it gets.
     
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  6. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    You might want to look at their opposing teachings.

    The state preaches equality under the law for women and gays and religions try to take that first class citizenship away from them.

    Which system do you think is superior and the most moral?

    Regards
    DL
     
  7. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    What do you have yo offer that is better?

    Their statist thinking seems to be more peaceful and law abiding than where theism is strong.



    Regards
    DL
     
  8. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No state.

    What do you have to offer that's better than religion?
     
  9. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    Critical thinking.

    Or at least disorganized religion or personal religion. Not on some ancient tome nobody can unanimously agree on interpretation of its meaning.
     
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  10. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh? That's certainly a rarity.

    That's usually the point of such things. If you make it clear and consistent, the layman doesn't need authoritarians to tell them what to think. It applies to religion and state.
     
  11. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Would that not mean anarchy?

    A ham sandwich.
     
  12. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Newly Registered

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    Church and State are separate, right. So they can have their own laws, commandments and covenants. So, Church can say the commandment is not to lie down with someone of the same sex as you would with a man and women would do. The Church can excommunicate but not put into a jail or execute in the U.S. In Iran or other Muslim countries they do. But, the State should not be able to interfere with the Church's excommunications. Nor should the State demand a Church reverse its practice of excommunication for homosexual behavior. Gays can simply not be a part of that Church. Just like if you don't like the liberalism of New York, you can move to Florida. You probably don't know this but Utah allowed women to vote way before woman gained their rights to vote by the U.S.
     
  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    In the Job story, Satan is more powerful than the God character because Satan made God do what God was reluctant to do.
     
  14. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I haven't pledged any allegiance like that. Where I am, the oath of allegiance is to the Monarch (and unless you're an elected official, military or a new citizen, you're not expected to swear the allegiance).

    I don't want to come across as "if you don't have anything useful to say, shut up", but what exactly is the point of declaring what "should" be done if those who "should" do it have no incentive to do so?
     
  15. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Newly Registered

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    Are religions that preach inequality for women and gays, traitors to their country?
    It depends, of course, on what country they are in. That said, anyone who professes belief in "God" or a religion is stating that man's law is lower and, so, conditional while another, higher justice exists that must supersede. People don't like to acknowledge, or even see, this, but it is true. To declare oneself a 'patriot' and religious believer is to state either that the person's 'belief' is false or that they are a traitor to their country (if it is laic).
     
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  16. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If they were, wouldn't that mean that people who campaign for equality against a countries laws promoting inequality were/are traitors too?

    Laws are changeable so I don't see anything traitorous in suggesting or even campaigning for them to change in any way, even ways I'd personally strongly object to. We're all free to discuss debate the rights and wrongs of different laws or proposed laws. In a way, that's part of the equality that was fought for in the first place.
     
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  17. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    No state/tribe is impossible for creatures like us, who have to depend on each other.

    I offer a better religion. Not with another god of war.

    A peaceful one. Gnostic Christianity. Atheists allowed in our mystery schools, just as we are allowed in theirs.

    The closest religion to laïcité.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  18. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    The issue is which is put above the other.

    Those who ignore their pledge of allegiance to the state, for their genocidal god led religions, are traitors to the country.

    God are for your spirit, as Jesus said, but your spoken oath is to the state.

    I can understand why the religious lie when swearing oaths, if they are ungrateful enough to put god above man. I just do not condone it.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  19. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Read the Christian way, possibly.

    Read the Jewish way. No.

    It all depends on the role you see her playing.

    Regards
    DL
     
  20. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Pointing out immoral creeds like the god religions,--- has value to those who care about improving the general moral levels in our communities.

    If you don't, bite me.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  21. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    The falseness of the law is not directly at issue.

    It is, false or not, it's it's priority or position in our minds as to what is greater, the law of the land of the law of some god.

    If law id to be relevant, it must answer to man. Not some genocidal garbage god.

    Regards
    DL
     
  22. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    No.

    Gays and women won their fight with the law. The same law of the land that religions bad mouth in their determination to discriminate without a just cause.

    If I ruled I would tell religions that do what our mainstream are doing to either stop, or be closed.

    They are G D traitors.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  23. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Newly Registered

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    Jehovah Witnesses do not stand for the flag. They don't celebrate birthdays so they don't get involved with the 4th of July. But, I've never known one of them that doesn't love the United States of America. Again, it's not a matter of which one is higher. They are separated as the Constitution provides. As the Founding Fathers stated quite clearly, our rights are endowed by our Creator. They are not given to us by mankind or government. Man and government can take away our rights. But, our rights come from God.
     
  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Only if you live in a fantasy land.

    My first allegiance is to me, my religion.

    So whats this all about, you fancy yourself some kind of statist saint?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  25. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Then we should be thankful you dont rule.
     

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